11 | Jeremy Doku - 2023/24

[Alan Harper's Tash]

You can see it as irksome, or realize that despite the low conversion he still produces an elite total of chances, and just enjoy the way he does that, because its simply entertaining.

What I mean is you have someone like Foden or Bernie who plays a different game and takes the ball to a dangerous area three times a game and out of those three times he makes an assist or scores a goal at least once, or at least makes the right decision to create a chance. Meanwhile you have Doku who will try ten times in his way, and make a mistake eight times through the wrong decision or inaccurate pass after getting past his guy, but he will get it right twice. 2>1 in the end.

Of course its a simplification but the point is in absolute numbers he creates a lot, and people being unhappy because he doesn't both do what he does best AND make efficient decisions all the time are basically expecting him to be Messi, because thats what a hybrid of Doku and Foden/Bernie would be. Its asking too much honestly. I'd rather enjoy the eight times he creates excitement without end product, knowing that eventually he will get one right due to sheer volume.

I think Pep plays him on the left because he sees him as a project and wants to improve Doku's shooting and turn him into a scorer. But Doku is not a Mbappe/Leao type of inside forward, hes a winger who will always be better at assisting than scoring. Being on the left doesn't improve his decision making because he is doubled more easily due to the obvious choices he has, and he has too much time between receiving the ball and making that choice. He sizes up opponents for too long, overthinks and then very often he has to restart because all the options are taken away. On the right he would play more instinctive and reactive which is his game. So its basically a decision by Pep whether he wants to turn Doku into a different player (more of a forward) by developing his shooting, or to fine tune his strength which is creation, which would be better to do from the right wing because his decision making would get better there.

I do get what you’re saying and I do enjoy watching him explode past people.

If you see a player “mess up” 80% of the time, some will get frustrate by that, even though he might end up with double the assists of someone else. Can you see that way of thinking?

If he can make it 50%, then he has 4 assists a game! That’s all I’m saying, really. If we can train him to become cold and make the right passes at the right time, he could be a Balon d’Or contender.

I hope we do try him on the right more. He’s looked dangerous every time he’s been out there. The problem is fitting Doku, Foden, Alvarez, Bernado and KDB into the same side.

 

[Silva2021]

He’s a strange player and probably in a weird way not helped by how well he started.

Very fast and then seems slow after 10 meters.

Decision making seems good on the wing for me, but then suffers as he goes into the middle.

He’s young, we’ve got Pep and he’s different.

Happy to have him in the squad but people thinking we had our own Mbappe, Vinicius etc. where always going to be wide of the mark and completely unrealistic.

 

[Belgian Flash]

He’s a strange player and probably in a weird way not helped by how well he started.

Very fast and then seems slow after 10 meters.

Decision making seems good on the wing for me, but then suffers as he goes into the middle.

He’s young, we’ve got Pep and he’s different.

Happy to have him in the squad but people thinking we had our own Mbappe, Vinicius etc. where always going to be wide of the mark and completely unrealistic.

He's not strange, just people generally don't understand dribblers and think of them as wasteful even though they create more than non-wasteful players. And Doku is the best dribbler on the planet so there will always be that sentiment of "how is he not Messi if he can ball like that". But hes playing at a pace of the game he's never faced before in England, especially against the big teams. He still needs to adjust, if he was in Spain or Italy he would have already been a top 3 player already imo.

I think hes almost there at the cusp of breaking in that Mbappe/Vinicius tier, it will take him a year or two at most. But Vini in his first few years at Madrid was a hot mess, Doku right now is lightyears ahead of that player. But Vini's shooting became much better, he became stronger and his footballing mind developed more. I can see the same happening to Doku, but they are still both volume creators, where they try and try until it comes off. But for me its a source of excitement rather than frustration.

But even without being in that tier yet, its crazy to see how much this incredible team has come to rely on Doku, it seems so much of the strategy is to get the ball to him and make something happen. His teammates are looking for him constantly, they expect him to be the one that makes that breakthrough. Hes a star whether people like it or not.

 

[alexmcity]

He's not strange, just people generally don't understand dribblers and think of them as wasteful even though they create more than non-wasteful players. And Doku is the best dribbler on the planet so there will always be that sentiment of "how is he not Messi if he can ball like that". But hes playing at a pace of the game he's never faced before in England, especially against the big teams. He still needs to adjust, if he was in Spain or Italy he would have already been a top 3 player already imo.

I think hes almost there at the cusp of breaking in that Mbappe/Vinicius tier, it will take him a year or two at most. But Vini in his first few years at Madrid was a hot mess, Doku right now is lightyears ahead of that player. But Vini's shooting became much better, he became stronger and his footballing mind developed more. I can see the same happening to Doku, but they are still both volume creators, where they try and try until it comes off. But for me its a source of excitement rather than frustration.

But even without being in that tier yet, its crazy to see how much this incredible team has come to rely on Doku, it seems so much of the strategy is to get the ball to him and make something happen. His teammates are looking for him constantly, they expect him to be the one that makes that breakthrough. Hes a star whether people like it or not.

People link Doku's presence with less defensive stability. I don't think they are right. Stones was injured for 4 months, Gvardiol is new to the league, Dias is out of form and Ake had a dip in form, too. We were solid vs Liverpool, though (they had two shots on target), and should have won, with Doku having 1-2 assists from the chances he created for Alvarez and Haaland when it still was 1:0.

Think Pep rates him higher than some on here. We changed how we play. When Doku starts, most of our attacking play goes through him. Why? Because both Pep and the players trust him to create multiple chances.

 

[meeesh]

Just popped in to see if this is another new, young player who is failing.

So left disappointed then?

 

[BlueMoonRisin’]

He's young dynamic impulsive and exciting to watch so I'm not going to try and nitpick a few mistakes he's made.

 

[Beanhead]

He’s a great player now.. and totally unique. He’s well worth the price we paid and will only get better.. how much better is anyone’s guess.. he has an extremely high ceiling.. may not improve that much more.. but may turn into a beast.

The point is he gives us a decent alternative regardless of whether he pushes on because as it stands he’s a threat and more than worth what we paid for him.

He was a great piece of business.. and every great team should have a player that gets you out of your seat.

 

[Dax777]

I have a theory that last season in the run in certain games were too tight. Our 'control' led to fewer and fewer real big chances being created, which culminated in the CL final, which was won by a single goal and really had Lukaku not missed that header, could've gone either way.

This season it feels like Pep has decided that he wants the team to be more attacking and more adventurous. Playing Walker/Gvardiol high and wide, then flooding central areas with the likes of Foden, Doku et al and playing more players who want to beat their man suggests that the emphasis is on attack rather than control. We will always have a level of control, but even the summer signings felt like players that would naturally take us in a different direction from last season.

I agree with the reasoning (if in fact that was Pep's belief). We were stagnant towards the end of last season. Very controlled but creates far less.
I like the push the attack mentality. And Doku/
Kev/Nunez/Phil all playing together behind Erling will be the greatest example of that.

Jack/Bernardo/Kova/ Bobb is the ball control and possession opposite of the above.


Both have their advantages and disadvantages. But I'm far more into the heltsr shelter team A

 

[cookster]

It's very early days but Doku seems out of sync when Haaland is playing with him.

On at least a few occasions when Haaland peels off, Doku chooses to pass elsewhere plus his speed and mazy dribbling means that Haaland's positional sense is out of kilter with Doku's style of play.

Reminds me of Mahrez early days at City, when he was always looking to shoot when a pass to a team mate was on.

How many games have they played together?

 

[Phil1]

How many games have they played together?

There were posters saying the same about Foden and Haaland early last season.
I’m sure people look for things that aren’t there to try and appear like they see things nobody else can.
It’s bollocks of course but it’s easier to leave them to it.