#17 | Kevin De Bruyne - 2020/21 Performances

[sky_blue]

Because you're being a hypocrite. And so overtly as well.

You praise Gundogan and point out how people didn't previously see what he does, and then you criticise (specifically you mocked) Jesus who falls under the same umbrella.

Then you point out rightly that De Bruyne was being heavily marked, but don't say the same of Jesus who's being followed by 2-3 defenders all match. And has done almost everytime he's featured this season.
You pointed out Jesus's weaker goal return, but fail to acknowledge De Bruyne's. And whether you want to use old fashioned 'it's a striker's sole purpose to score' rhetoric or not, it's just as much on De Bruyne to score goals too in this set up.

Disagree. Jesus doesn't fall under the same umbrella. His movement driving into the box is poor. He often fails to pick up movements from Mahrez and Kevin, giving them no opportunity to drive a low cross into the box. That movement was our staple in 17/18 with Sane and Aguero both driving into the box. Jesus is often creating spaces for others but that is simply because he is himself not a good finisher. So he's doing the next best thing which is create space for someone else who has a higher chance of scoring goals. You will never find Aguero or Lewa spending so much time outside the box. They do drag defenders and create space, but for Jesus, that seems to be his only responsibility coupled with pressing. This is not good enough.

Most goals are scored from the center of the pitch - there's only player occupying that space. You can't honestly expect Kevin to score 20 goals, he is not a striker. Come the end of the season, he will end up with more or less 10 goals which is what you would expect from a player in his position and ability. I judge Kevin's performance based on chance creation because that is his primary role in the team. He's leading the league table for "big chances created" with 10 and he's only started 10/12 games with the least amount of pre-season or break than anyone else in the squad. He's performing exceptionally.

Jesus has scored 2 goals, the same as Kevin. There are 39 players ahead of him in the league for goals scored. I'm not coming up with arbitrary metrics to judge Jesus/Kevin. You judge a striker based on goals (in which Jesus is 40th) and you judge a creative player based on chance creation (in which Kevin is 1st).

 

[mccity]

Disagree. Jesus doesn't fall under the same umbrella. His movement driving into the box is poor. He often fails to pick up movements from Mahrez and Kevin, giving them no opportunity to drive a low cross into the box. That movement was our staple in 17/18 with Sane and Aguero both driving into the box. Jesus is often creating spaces for others but that is simply because he is himself not a good finisher. So he's doing the next best thing which is create space for someone else who has a higher chance of scoring goals. You will never find Aguero or Lewa spending so much time outside the box. They do drag defenders and create space, but for Jesus, that seems to be his only responsibility coupled with pressing. This is not good enough.

Most goals are scored from the center of the pitch - there's only player occupying that space. You can't honestly expect Kevin to score 20 goals, he is not a striker. Come the end of the season, he will end up with more or less 10 goals which is what you would expect from a player in his position and ability. I judge Kevin's performance based on chance creation because that is his primary role in the team. He's leading the league table for "big chances created" with 10 and he's only started 10/12 games with the least amount of pre-season or break than anyone else in the squad. He's performing exceptionally.

Jesus has scored 2 goals, the same as Kevin. There are 39 players ahead of him in the league for goals scored. I'm not coming up with arbitrary metrics to judge Jesus/Kevin. You judge a striker based on goals (in which Jesus is 40th) and you judge a creative player based on chance creation (in which Kevin is 1st).

Ok. I must admit, you've made lot of effort he again and I appreciate that. You've laid out your views clearly and I can see that even though I disagree with your point of view I also have the benefit of seeing why on a deeper level.



So we're never going to quite see eye to eye because we both principally have differing views. It's not that I explicitly disagree with your views on striker and midfielder roles, however within this specific team with the specific way I interpret Pep to have set it up, I just feel you can't solely pin down either Jesus's or De Bruyne's roles and responsibilities to more traditional boundaries.

It's not worth either of our time for me to nitpick out little bits you've said as ultimately we're seeing things from different vantage points. Although I strongly disagree with the bolded and feel you're doing Jesus a massive disservice, suggesting such a style is as a response to poor finishing as opposed to the far more likely selfless nature of his play. That would be akin to someone of previous seasons saying Gundogan only passed backwards and sideways because he lacked creativity, instead of the fact he was patient and efficient in possession.

Ps. From my perspective you were being hypocritical. But from yours you weren't, so I apologise (again) for my previous statement, and thank you for keeping a level head.

 

[sky_blue]

Ok. I must admit, you've made lot of effort he again and I appreciate that. You've laid out your views clearly and I can see that even though I disagree with your point of view I also have the benefit of seeing why on a deeper level.



So we're never going to quite see eye to eye because we both principally have differing views. It's not that I explicitly disagree with your views on striker and midfielder roles, however within this specific team with the specific way I interpret Pep to have set it up, I just feel you can't solely pin down either Jesus's or De Bruyne's roles and responsibilities to more traditional boundaries.

It's not worth either of our time for me to nitpick out little bits you've said as ultimately we're seeing things from different vantage points. Although I strongly disagree with the bolded and feel you're doing Jesus a massive disservice, suggesting such a style is as a response to poor finishing as opposed to the far more likely selfless nature of his play. That would be akin to someone of previous seasons saying Gundogan only passed backwards and sideways because he lacked creativity, instead of the fact he was patient and efficient in possession.

Ps. From my perspective you were being hypocritical. But from yours you weren't, so I apologise (again) for my previous statement, and thank you for keeping a level head.

No problem mate. The forum is full of bellends, easy to mistake someone looking for discussion with someone taking the piss. I've made the same mistake more than once. I see your point, but it looks like we disagree on a fundamental level. Good discussion.

 

[super_city_si]

He’s been poor all season. Blamed it on fatigue but he’s only played once a week the last few. Seriously out of from,However, He pulled out two superb crosses tonight. Should play deeper.

 

[super_city_si]

I think he is better in an open game against opponents who want to try to beat us, congested areas are not his best environment. The problem, especially in the second half tonight is, how can he play deeper when we are camped in their half, mostly just outside their area. How deep can he go in that situation, with only Eddie in our half.

First half he was often up with the striker making a line of 4. Noticed later in the second half he’d dropped deeper and wider picking up that position he used to always take just outside the corner of the opponents area. Much better from there.

 

[mancity1]

He’s been poor all season. Blamed it on fatigue but he’s only played once a week the last few. Seriously out of from,However, He pulled out two superb crosses tonight. Should play deeper.

Sums up the whole team none of them if honest could say they have been at their best in any game played to date.

Chumps League was good results wise but the opposition was very ordinary.

Last night was hopefully as poor as it will get for us this season considering the opposition.

16 points dropped in 12 games is just not acceptable and the owners have some big decisions to make on and off the field if we continue on this decline for the remainder of the season already a third through.

 

[FantasyIreland]

He doesnt look anywhere near as fit as he should be.I'm not sure why that is,or whether its a temporary thing.

 

[leo_city]

He’s been poor all season. Blamed it on fatigue but he’s only played once a week the last few. Seriously out of from,However, He pulled out two superb crosses tonight. Should play deeper.

I remember a couple seasons back we wanted him playing closer to goal because of his eye for a goal and being quick/decisive in his movement. Now we want him deeper.

 

[Eric Hitchmough]

This season he resembles Gerrard in that really uninspiring Dippers team when basically he had to do everything due to the inferiority of his teammates.

 

[oldius]

He is out of form and as our main creator, that is a concern, especially with BS not being at his usual level. We have a real challenge on our hands and I cannot think of one of our creative players who is currently really at it. For those who will come and blame others, just look at his shooting stats which is primarily an individual skill. There is nobody I know that doesn't think the world of KDB, one of the greatest midfielders in the world, but he is finding things tough, at the moment.