2020 US Elections

[mancity2012_eamo]

We're basically arguing timing at this point.

We agree that the US is fucked. I think it's fucked because American culture is fucked and this predates Trump, who is a symptom of that culture rather than the cause. Healthy democracies don't vote in game show hosts with no previous political experience with highly unrealistic promises that claim their democracy is corrupt. The very fact he claimed their democracy is corrupt with his swamp draining rhetoric and still had a massive amount of the voters voting for him is indeed evidence of the fact that many Americans already believed their democracy to be corrupt.

I think about the lynchings and the Christian fundamentalists/evangelical streak and the race riots that seem to happened every decade or so, and the Wall Street influence and the lobbyist system and the overly partisan rhetoric and the PATRIOT Act (and successsors) and the constant interventionalist foreign policy and the flag waving and the gun toting and the Pledge of Allegiance in schools and the fascist symbology and the fight against LGBT rights and the portrayal of Muslims in the media even predating 9/11 and Rodney King and OJ Simpson and the general worship of the military or soldiers and that 25% of the American people believe the Earth orbits the Sun and 75% or so believe in the literal existence of angels and the denial of climate change and the demonisation of the United Nations and the "vaccines cause autism" thing and the homelessness situation including how they're portrayed in US media and the "gang culture" and the corporate exploitation of social movements and the constant non-stop propaganda by the media, politicians and corporations.

I think of all these and when somebody says "it's Trump fault that our country is divided" or some such then it never rings true to me. I'm sure that he hasn't helped but that horse bolted long ago.

I don't think people are arguing that at all.
I think most people are saying that he hasn't caused people to think that way but he is feeding those that do and trying to ensure that things stay that way in perpetuity.
I think people realise that their system is broken but that Trump would try and write democracy out of the system altogether.
That is the immediate danger in this election.
Voter suppression and gerrymandering has existed for years but, right now it's blatant anti-democratic use aong with every other overtly subversive tactic is heading towards one lear totally undemocratic conclusion.
Sane Americans in here have pointed this out. Those that actually have a vote and a clear vested interest. They are voting for the hope of a fairer future, not an autocracy.

Existing problems may be tackled by a new incoming government or may not.
Trump remaining indicates existing problems will be cemented and compounded.

You can argue otherwise as much as you like, but that seems to be the choice they have.
If I had a vote, I'd see it the same.

 

[The blue phantom]

"Four more years? Get 50/1 on Donald Trump to win the US Presidential Election 2020 with promo code EPUS2020" William Hill

You can now get 8/13 on Biden to win with William Hill. That's 61 % Profit on whatever you stake for something that seems to be done and dusted :)

 

[BobKowalski]

You know as well as I do that those last 2 votes are not reflective of the actual stance of everybody involved and instead were party whipped in response to Garland. Suggesting that this was a judged individually on their partisanship, and not judged in the fact that their parties literally told them to vote that way is intellectually dishonest.

What was Robert Bork comfirmed at?

What about Alito?

Why didn't you mention Thomas' 52-48?

Bork was opposed on the grounds of his intent to roll back Civil Rights decision. Thomas who is possibly the worst Supreme Court judge * in several generations, ran into trouble over a sex scandal.

* Kavanaugh will take that title.

Merrick Garland was opposed on the grounds he was nominated by a black President.

But yeah, keep up with the false equivalency. It gives Dax a much needed break.

 

[BobKowalski]

From MSNBC. Kind of sums it up.

‘Today is Election Day and Donald Trump never released a health care plan.’

 

[dave_blue12]

We're basically arguing timing at this point.

We agree that the US is fucked. I think it's fucked because American culture is fucked and this predates Trump, who is a symptom of that culture rather than the cause. Healthy democracies don't vote in game show hosts with no previous political experience with highly unrealistic promises that claim their democracy is corrupt. The very fact he claimed their democracy is corrupt with his swamp draining rhetoric and still had a massive amount of the voters voting for him is indeed evidence of the fact that many Americans already believed their democracy to be corrupt.

I think about the lynchings and the Christian fundamentalists/evangelical streak and the race riots that seem to happened every decade or so, and the Wall Street influence and the lobbyist system and the overly partisan rhetoric and the PATRIOT Act (and successsors) and the constant interventionalist foreign policy and the flag waving and the gun toting and the Pledge of Allegiance in schools and the fascist symbology and the fight against LGBT rights and the portrayal of Muslims in the media even predating 9/11 and Rodney King and OJ Simpson and the general worship of the military or soldiers and that 25% of the American people believe the Earth orbits the Sun and 75% or so believe in the literal existence of angels and the denial of climate change and the demonisation of the United Nations and the "vaccines cause autism" thing and the homelessness situation including how they're portrayed in US media and the "gang culture" and the corporate exploitation of social movements and the constant non-stop propaganda by the media, politicians and corporations.

I think of all these and when somebody says "it's Trump fault that our country is divided" or some such then it never rings true to me. I'm sure that he hasn't helped but that horse bolted long ago.

I can agree with this but whilst Trump exists because America is fucked he contributes by pushing the country further down the road to hell.

Trump is a symptom that is helping to kill the patient. If there is a cure and I don't know if there is, it surely isn't Trump.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Never got the ‘shy Trump’ vote given the way they walk around in bright red hats and bumper stickers over their trucks.

The other part I never got was Trump losing by 3 million votes, so not so much ‘shy‘ as don’t really exist.

I've no doubt the 'shy vote' does exist. To what extent I don't know.
As I said before back 2018 I asked the extremely intelligent family of my niece/godchild in Chicago why Trump won and was totally surprised by the logic for it being given to me.
They would not admit that they voted for him, as they agreed he was a vile human being, but they left me with the distinct impression they had.

I would think there is quite a few like that that are not MAGA hat wearing gimps, that have a modicum of intelligence and as such would like to keep their own prejudices/bias private.

 

[abu13]

I hope that today is the day that America tells Trump to do one and kick him out emphatically.

I then suspect his missus will then also be fucking him off, i cant see her seeing Trump as a long term issue now he loses the status.

 

[Bigga]

Never got the ‘shy Trump’ vote given the way they walk around in bright red hats and bumper stickers over their trucks.

The other part I never got was Trump losing by 3 million votes, so not so much ‘shy‘ as don’t really exist.

Got naff all to do with the red hat goons.

It's suburbia and the swelling of their Wall st invested bank accounts.

Those whose well-to-do whose social morality may well differ from their financial future security.

Difficult choices for many.

 

[@BluePhil8]

Never got the ‘shy Trump’ vote given the way they walk around in bright red hats and bumper stickers over their trucks.

The other part I never got was Trump losing by 3 million votes, so not so much ‘shy‘ as don’t really exist.

Politics is tribal. Everyone is offended by everything.

I voted to remain in the EU, but I was on the fence for a while. If I had voted to leave, I don’t think I would have been comfortable telling people; the level of discourse is now so low in this country that you get labelled EDL/racist within 2 minutes. Just look at the Brexit thread on here; everyone is a thick, gullible xenophobe who was tricked in to leaving.


There are people in the key swing states who will have moderate or left wing families, friends or colleagues, who might want to vote for Trump because they might be financially better off now than they were 5 years ago. They won’t be comfortable saying this though, because even though they know what their intentions are, they are fearful of being labelled a racist or xenophobe.

There is no reason to be a shy democrat, because the democrats, more so than the republicans, have a platform that is run partly on identity politics. No one is going to say ‘oh my god you voted democrat you are a racist’.

I don’t think most people are like this, but definitely 3-5% ish.

 

[Bigga]

I've no doubt the 'shy vote' does exist. To what extent I don't know.
As I said before back 2018 I asked the extremely intelligent family of my niece/godchild in Chicago why Trump won and was totally surprised by the logic for it being given to me.
They would not admit that they voted for him, as they agreed he was a vile human being, but they left me with the distinct impression they had.

I would think there is quite a few like that that are not MAGA hat wearing gimps, that have a modicum of intelligence and as such would like to keep their own prejudices/bias private.

Agreed.