2020 US Elections

[west didsblue]

Wood from the trees.

Let's say, for the sake of the argument Trump loses, What will happen?

Biden and Harris will do fuck all, corporations will still call the shots. There'll be some cosmetic changes but very little else.

But, but, but, there'll be the prospect, no matter how slim, for progressive change.

Right now there is none.

You might consider this a sell out. But there are no upsides to a Trump win, absolutely none.

Unless you believe in the revolutionary doctrine, that a Trump win will create such chaos, such division, that the USA will convulse and from the ensuing shit show a truly progressive socialist government will rise from the ashes. I would suggest that not only is that highly unlikely, it is just as likely that fascism would emerge the winner from any such conflagration.

And irrespective of who would ultimately prevail in that scenario there would be multiple thousands of people who wouldn’t care because they would be dead.

 

[The perfect fumble]

And irrespective of who would ultimately prevail in that scenario there would be multiple thousands of people who wouldn’t care because they would be dead.

Just so.

But if you're a big picture sort of guy then sacrifice is necessary, after all, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

 

[SWP's back]

It's OK to admit you're wrong on this.

Haha. He’ll be all over that just after hell freezes over.

 

[SWP's back]

Just so.

But if you're a big picture sort of guy then sacrifice is necessary, after all, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.

A great deal easier when it happens in a far off land (that you’ll never visit) to be that ‘big picture guy’.

 

[Bigga]

Wood from the trees.

Let's say, for the sake of the argument Trump loses, What will happen?

Biden and Harris will do fuck all, corporations will still call the shots. There'll be some cosmetic changes but very little else.

But, but, but, there'll be the prospect, no matter how slim, for progressive change.

Right now there is none.

You might consider this a sell out. But there are no upsides to a Trump win, absolutely none.

Unless you believe in the revolutionary doctrine, that a Trump win will create such chaos, such division, that the USA will convulse and from the ensuing shit show a truly progressive socialist government will rise from the ashes. I would suggest that not only is that highly unlikely, it is just as likely that fascism would emerge the winner from any such conflagration.

I find it rather interesting that you no longer believe that people have the power.

Let me tell you something that will destroy your whole rather linear premise.

If there's not enough satisfactory change, no matter who's in charge, if people down tools and strike en masse, it will force change. If people vote, en masse, for down ticket ballots, it will force change. All of this regardless of who is in charge.

So, yes, from the ashes a PROGRESSIVE government, not socialist, can form.

This can only happen when people decide there's nowhere else to go (FDR's government is a point in case).

And this would mean the rejection of 'The American Dream' (which is an obvious lie) in the form that it currently stands.

 

[Bigga]

I know you think the Democrats and the Republicans are two cheeks of the same arse, and fundamentally you're right.

You could construct a convincing argument to say the Democrats lie to the poor and minorities to get their vote, then sell them down the river once in power, and you'd have a case.

But, even if you did all of that, it would still leave the Republicans trying to suppress the vote and the Democrats doing what they can to stop them.

It's OK to admit you're wrong on this.

See the above as a retort.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Haha. He’ll be all over that just after hell freezes over.

If Biden wins, a thread trying to have a thoughtful, rational discussion about him as he performs his duties over the next four years will be littered with this schmuck’s feces. Oh joy.

 

[SWP's back]

If Biden wins, a thread trying to have a thoughtful, rational discussion about him as he performs his duties over the next four years will be littered with this schmuck’s feces. Oh joy.

Meh. There’s a simple solution to that.

I just can’t get over how stupid the arguments put forward are when it boils down to this.

Me: what’s for dinner? I fancy fillet steak

Wife: we don’t have steak sorry, it’s burger or a plate of dog turd.

Me: well if I can’t have exactly what I want then I want the dog shit please.

The fella is a joke. He’s so far past any semblance of actually caring for the causes he professes to care about. He’s now in a hole and only cares about trying to appear correct on an online forum and has the full backing of himself, the voices in his head, the guy he sees daily in the mirror and that’s where it starts and ends.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Meh. There’s a simple solution to that.

I just can’t get over how stupid the arguments put forward are when it boils down to this.

Me: what’s for dinner? I fancy fillet steak

Wife: we don’t have steak sorry, it’s burger or a plate of dog turd.

Me: well if I can’t have exactly what I want then I want the dog shit please.

The fella is a joke. He’s so far past any semblance of actually caring for the causes he professes to care about. He’s now in a hole and only cares about trying to appear correct on an online forum and has the full backing of himself, the voices in his head, the guy he sees daily in the mirror and that’s where it starts and ends.

well he's a racist, so the solution was simple to really make this thread clean and quiet.

 

[SWP's back]

well he's a racist, so the solution was simple to really make this thread clean and quiet.

I’ve not seen the thread you mention but I’d be surprised if he is.

 

[The perfect fumble]

I find it rather interesting that you no longer believe that people have the power.

What people? You mean the "mass" of the people? To use revolutionary lexicon, the mass of the people wouldn't need to cast off their chains, if they had the power to prevent being chained in the first place.

Let me tell you something that will destroy your whole rather linear premise.

If there's not enough satisfactory change, no matter who's in charge, if people down tools and strike en masse, it will force change.

How well the rich and powerful manage "satisfaction" or more appropriately manage "dissatisfaction", is, for them, the difference between playing golf every weekend or taking the walk of shame, or even being taken out back and shot.

The rich and powerful have used various tactics over millennia to manage mass misery quite successfully.....Divide and rule, bread a circuses, crumbs off the table, state violence.

If people vote, en masse, for down ticket ballots, it will force change. All of this regardless of who is in charge.

Oh dear, this is one of those if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle posts.

They're down ticket for a reason and in that regard it has everything to do with who's in charge. And don't come back with that Green candidate bollocks, even if the Green had been on the ballot, they wouldn't have received votes en masse, they would have received just enough to benefit the Republicans, it's called splitting the vote, something that has been happening in the UK for years, with the Liberals fucking Labour over time and time again.

So, yes, from the ashes a PROGRESSIVE government, not socialist, can form.

You're mixing your metaphors, change via the ballot box is not a from the ashes scenario.

This can only happen when people decide there's nowhere else to go (FDR's government is a point in case).

No it isn't, if there'd been nowhere else to go there would've been revolution. In fact FDR destroys your nowhere else to go nonsense, because he showed there was indeed somewhere else to go, and that was the New Deal. FDR was the very epitome of rich and powerful, but he was smart enough to know that extraordinary measures were required to nip revolution in the bud.

And this would mean the rejection of 'The American Dream' (which is an obvious lie) in the form that it currently stands.

The American Dream is American exceptionalism coated in sugar. It's stock has been falling for some time.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Ha ha ha oh Christ . . .

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

I’ve not seen the thread you mention but I’d be surprised if he is.

these things work both ways.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

 

[SWP's back]

Was just about to post this.

 

[SWP's back]

Clearing it up for Dax



Now it’s Trump’s turn.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Ha ha ha oh Christ . . .

Whilst an effective treatment for COVID-19 may not be that far away, Eric Trump perfectly demonstrates that a cure for stupid is a long way off.

 

[Dax777]

Here is how I see it.

Democrats want every eligible person to vote and to achieve that they want very little barriers to voting. Thus, they often accuse Republicans of Suppresing the vote anytime Republicans putting in requirements for voting.

Republicans want only people who are legally allowed to vote, voting. Thus, they want rules that apply to everyone in other to guarantee only those legally allowed to vote actually vote. Thus, they often accuse Democrats of commiting Voter Fraud by clearing the barriers to the perpetration of fraud.

If you belong to one side or the other, ot as the case is here often, if you hate one particular guy or his side, then you are likely to recite the talking point of the other side and believe everything else besides that is false or irrelevant.

Now, the legitimate claims and concerns of the 2 sides above notwithstanding both do partake in actions that diminish the legitimacy of elections.

State officials shutting down polling places or mail in drop off spots is a despicable act ( in my opinion) as it limits the voters access and opportunity to cast their vote.

On the other hand, Suing to have candidates kicked off the ballot is also a despicable act (again, in my opinion) as it limits the voters choices of candidates to whom they'd willingly cast their vote.

Now both of the above actions can actually be legitimate. A technicality error on the part of a minor candidate is that candidates fault. Opening an opportunity for the their legitimate dismissal.

Similarly, a State may have limited poll workers especially in times of Covid and thus limit the amount of options (granted, they'd likely target where the limitations will occur to favor the outcome they'd prefer), but this too could be legitimate.

Legitimacy of these actions however may not foster better democracy.

That said, there are illegal actions being perpetrated by both parties. There are well known instances of fraud. And when I say well known instances, I'm talking about prosecuted and convicted cases.

The existence of these cases (and there are lots of them) makes legitimate concerns of fraud a real issue. No matter how much one side plays it down

There are illegitimate actions by both Democrat and Republicans or their adjacent as it relates to fostering democracy.

The talking point of one side (in this case the Democrats) exemplified by the Domalino post does not change what's true about Suppression, Fraud and tactics that overall diminishes Democracy.

Clearing it up for Dax



Now it’s Trump’s turn.

It wasn't just for me though, clearly many including his staff heard exactly what I heard and made him correct the record.

 

[Dax777]

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[SWP's back]

.

First post of yours that’s been well argued in days.