3-5-2 leaves us badly open to counter attacks....

[Lucky Toma]

No question that we look vulnerable to counters with this system and far worse yet we dont appear to be benefitting from what 3-5-2 can offer which renders the formation pointless (at present).

In possession we should have plenty of options. We don't. If anything we look a man short going forward.

We should be flooding the midfield area and dominating through numbers. We're not.

One of the problems for me is that Kolorov and Milner are far too static in their roles.
So much of the good things we create come about from Silva, Yaya, Tevez etc interlinking around the box and having a full-back over-lapping and coming in around the side of a defence that has compacted.
Yesterday the ball was played out to Milner who was isolated. Then what? He can either knock it back infield (so aside from briefly stretching the opposition defence this has achieved little and certainly no penetration) or he can take the full-back on and whip in a cross. More times than not he doesn't and quite frankly we're not a side - even if Dzeko starts - who score a great deal from whipping in balls into congested penalty areas from wide positions.

Whereas with the 4-2-2-2 Silva/Nasri/Yaya and co interlink, the full-back is drawn into it, and Richards/Zabba arrives from nowhere, overlaps into the available space, cuts it back. Goal.

I saw this only once yesterday and that was because Milner arrived late instead of simply hogging the touchline when we had possession. Because of this there was movement, fluidity and options and it resulted in Balo hiting the post (with a wrong offside given).

Overall though it wasnt the system that let us down yesterday. There were far too many under-hit passes or mistimed runs and I blame that on the Euros that have disrupted our pre-season preparation with players returning at different times.
Once those glitches are ironed out in the weeks to come we'll regain our collective sharpness I'm sure of it irrespective of the system we employ.

 

[stonerblue]

After watching today game I really think that by playing this formation we are badly
exposed to counter attacks....Though we conceded both goals on set pieces but I still think there should be more protection for back four and we were lucky to only concede 2...First thing that baffles me is why we have abandoned 4-2-2-2 that worked wonders last season....I know some may argue that we need something different for Champions league but we dint do that bad at it last year as we got 10 points in possibly the hardest group....Anyway it's just my opinion feel free to reply..

Agreed.

The system is easy to get round and plays into the hands of the opposition.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Lots of players had a poor day yesterday but Nasri certainly wasn't helped by having no Merlin and a static Balo.

agreed. But you can't accommodate silva and nasri in the 352. Yet another reason to bin it.

I'm not sure it needs binning yet, it just requires the right personnel. Silva in the hole with Clichy and Micah wide plus a new CB would make it work better for example.

I don't think, as I said above, that playing Silva and Nasri as widemen in a midfield 4 gets the best out of either of them.

The 4-2-3-1 with Yaya has seemed to be our best option, it certainly works at the end of games however that then means one of Carlos or Sergio can't play.

Keeping players happy is going to be tough for Bob this season.

you're right. Binning is too strong a word. But are too many players away from it at the moment; especially in tough games. I like the 4222 personally but it works so much better with Micah and clichy providing penetration on the flanks and silva and nasri drifting infield. It actually worked well with Milner in for nasri too. I accept that doesn't get the best from yaya but I think that matters less with a front four interchanging passes. And it's always there as a plan b.

 

[Damanino]

We are generally slow and I would like if we could play with more pace. Faster build ups, faster movement, we need to improve all the time as Mancini says and this is an "area" where we can improve a lot.

We have so much quality in the starting line up but with more pace in it we would be a lot better. Even our faster players use their pace not so often.
When we have a good counter option we tend to to play it slower while our opponents try to make a shot with 2-3 passes from it.

Barca, Real, they use their pace a lot, we dont have that much fast players tho. Clichy, Richards, Balotelli, Yaya (in sprint), maybe Nasri and Agüero. This 6 players rarely start a match together. Even if they do we dont rely on their good pace much. don't know why.

Run faster, make faster build ups, cross the ball faster, pass the ball faster, that would be a nightmare for our opponents.

Also it is important in the CL to be faster. Another group stage fiasco cannot happen.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I've said it repeatedly since the summer, it isn't a formation I like, partly because it doesn't suit our personel and partly because it leaves you vulnerable wide against good teams. Liverpool exploited this frequently yesterday.

But to fucking play it without either of your key 'hole' players in the most advanced role was managerial madness. As soon as we went back to 4, pushed yaya forward then introduced silva, we looked dangerous. Silva would have opened Liverpool up in the first half hour and the game would have been over. Instead we had flat track bully nasri wasting possession and slowing up moves, rendering our domination useless through lack of chances. We had yaya rendered ineffective by playing too deep.

Nasri can play a bit but not in that role in that game. I knew we'd lose as soon as I saw that team. Grateful for the point. I hope we learn some lessons from that. Drop the fucking 352 and do what we are good at:winning games through swift attacking football- through yaya and silva.

Yep, without Clichy in a 3-5-2, it should never even be contemplated.

It's a formation to change to in certain circumstances, United, last year, being a decent example.

The backline are always treading fine margins when it comes to picking up red cards, standing so square-on and exposed to runners.

dead right. Kolo, lescott and zabaleta are not at their best with people running at them. Milner and kolorov are not quick enough to be wing backs but clichy and richards could do it. It could be used at home against shit teams, a bit like the Chelsea game, where the wider two centre halves push wide so the wing backs are effectively attackers. But not in games like yesterday. And with silva on the bench and yaya fucking holding. Yes, I'm annoyed at 2 pts wasted. But it isn't the end of the world as long as it teaches the manager a few lessons.

Hope you are well mate. Currently in south Wales myself.

Well, thanks - a busy week ahead!

South Wales, eh?

My condolences.

 

[the blue panther]

The main problem with the change of formation is that it brings out all the usual suspects on here with their champ manager opinions.
The fact is that, if we had got our noses in front in the 1st 20/25 minutes when we were in the ascendancy, you wouldn't be posting the usual shite on here now.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

We are generally slow and I would like if we could play with more pace. Faster build ups, faster movement, we need to improve all the time as Mancini says and this is an "area" where we can improve a lot.

We have so much quality in the starting line up but with more pace in it we would be a lot better. Even our faster players use their pace not so often.
When we have a good counter option we tend to to play it slower while our opponents try to make a shot with 2-3 passes from it.

Barca, Real, they use their pace a lot, we dont have that much fast players tho. Clichy, Richards, Balotelli, Yaya (in sprint), maybe Nasri and Agüero. This 6 players rarely start a match together. Even if they do we dont rely on their good pace much. don't know why.

Run faster, make faster build ups, cross the ball faster, pass the ball faster, that would be a nightmare for our opponents.

Also it is important in the CL to be faster. Another group stage fiasco cannot happen.

our threat from pace is is the pace of our passing. When aguero and silva are there it's our main strength. I'm not trying to victimise Nasri too much but he doesn't play that way. And neither does Tevez. They slow it down. Good players but not one touch Players. That's the real conunundrum the manager is faced with this season.

 

[Jontyh68]

It worked extremely well against Chelsea.

4-4-2 didn't work great against Southampton last week and we were vulnerable against them.

I don't think our fitness is there yet. Liverpool looked sharper today.

If we can get the win next week then 2 weeks before the next game gives the players more time to get fit even if away on international duty and gives aguero and Barry time to get fit.

Exactly. The biggest disappointment for me was the failure to challenge effectively for the second ball when we supposedly had a 5 man midfield. Maybe Mancini is waiting for Sinclair to play wing back along with, I dunno, Milner? Hopefully, Kolo's comedy turn for the season is now over.

Also, Silva needs time to recover although I cannot work out why Balo looks so lethargic. Did the Euros really take that much out of him?

Anyway, I can no longer work out what Mancini is really on about. Kidology or is he really holding out for one or more signings?

After two games, only questions from me, although I think we have plenty to be positive about. After we play Chelsea away on 25th Nov, following Champs League games, we'll have a better idea of where we're at. As it stands, 4 points after coming from behind in both games is a good sign to me and I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep worrying about Hart's 'left-sided weakness'.

This made me laugh. It is like having one of the Keystone Cops in defence.

 

[Challenger1978]

Who actually played in the back 3 yesterday as that's what I couldn't work out ?

We just didn't seem organised at all, Kolo was all over the place but mainly on the right (played really bad and kept fucking up), Kompany was central some of the time. I couldn't figure out though who was on the left.

According to the team formation thing on sky before the match started it was supposed to be Kolorov on the left. He wasn't their most of the time, In fact it looked more like he was a wing back than a centre back.

 

[Mancio]

Who actually played in the back 3 yesterday as that's what I couldn't work out ?

We just didn't seem organised at all, Kolo was all over the place but mainly on the right (played really bad and kept fucking up), Kompany was central some of the time. I couldn't figure out though who was on the left.

According to the team formation thing on sky before the match started it was supposed to be Kolorov on the left. He wasn't their most of the time, In fact it looked more like he was a wing back than a centre back.

maybe becouse the left CB was zabaleta ?