#47 | Phil Foden - 2020/21 Performances

[Churchlawtonblue]

I think he is intent on winning. I suspect this is as much about some people's feelings about Mahrez than a specific issue about Phil.

Mahrez isnt as good or as consistent as Foden, that's what it comes down to.

 

[oldius]

Mahrez isnt as good or as consistent as Foden, that's what it comes down to.

So if Foden played 81 minutes more and Mahrez 81 minutes less, there wouldn't really be an issue? Seriously, I agree with your point but we cannot get away from it being a squad game and PF being a potential worldy who we want 15 years of genius from.

 

[oldius]

Because he's worthy of playing much more than cup games.

He does and will.

 

[Cheeky Txiki]

Pep has developed once youngsters like Lionel Messi, Joshua Kimmich, Thiago Alcantara, Raheem Sterling, Leroy Sane into world class players. Pep likes to coach his youngsters for 1000s of hours and ease them into game time. The only exception to this was Messi, who apparently learnt lessons in one go and was ready by 19. Let's give Pep the benefit of the doubt, since he has a proven track record in developing youngsters.

 

[bluealf]

Pep has developed once youngsters like Lionel Messi, Joshua Kimmich, Thiago Alcantara, Raheem Sterling, Leroy Sane into world class players. Pep likes to coach his youngsters for 1000s of hours and ease them into game time. The only exception to this was Messi, who apparently learnt lessons in one go and was ready by 19. Let's give Pep the benefit of the doubt, since he has a proven track record in developing youngsters.

Can't beat that old Pep knows best mantra in any online discussion, I mean it is a game ending statement, no further discussion necessary.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

So he'll pretty much never be a midfielder under Pep. Good to know so I can just get used to him being a fairly decent winger who gets used to rotate the main ones. Joy.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

So he'll pretty much never be a midfielder under Pep. Good to know so I can just get used to him being a fairly decent winger who gets used to rotate the main ones. Joy.

It’s the best position for him right now though. He is one of our very best pressers, so it’s good to have him high up the pitch. He also has a good eye for a goal, so we can use that. David Silva and De Bruyne played from the wing in their early days. It’s a pretty normal career arc. Iniesta also played on the wing as a sort of false winger, coming infield. It’s quite normal until Phil learns what he needs to learn to be better deeper than advanced. He isn’t there yet, he doesn’t give us much control of the game in this moment.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

It’s the best position for him right now though. He is one of our very best pressers, so it’s good to have him high up the pitch. He also has a good eye for a goal, so we can use that. David Silva and De Bruyne played from the wing in their early days. It’s a pretty normal career arc. Iniesta also played on the wing as a sort of false winger, coming infield. It’s quite normal until Phil learns what he needs to learn to be better deeper than advanced. He isn’t there yet, he doesn’t give us much control of the game in this moment.

If our midfield was still Kev, David and Fern then I'd have legitimately no complaints about it. The problem is that our midfield is now considerably worse than that and slow as fuck both in an attacking and defensive sense.

The best pieces of play I've seen from Phil are when he receives the ball facing his own goal in his own half and with one swivel he's past two or three opposition players and charging down the pitch to lead an attack. But obviously we can't have two players with the ability, quick thinking and pace to be direct in midfield because then Pep doesn't get 66% possession and to tell the interviewer after a win/ loss/ draw that we controlled the game.

The midfield has been an issue for over a year now.

 

[domalino]

obviously we can't have two players with the ability, quick thinking and pace to be direct in midfield because then Pep doesn't get 66% possession and to tell the interviewer after a win/ loss/ draw that we controlled the game.

Imagine being a grown adult and actually thinking this.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Imagine being a grown adult and actually thinking this.

No offence, Dom, but you're not exactly the shining example of how typical grown adults conduct themselves.

 

[domalino]

No offence, Dom, but you're not exactly the shining example of how typical grown adults conduct themselves.

Strong words indeed from the great mind that came up with this critique.

Pep's a pussyole, simple as that. Scared of making substitutions, scared of playing young players and scared of not holding onto the ball for 65% of a game. Watching him constantly twitching and flapping on the sidelines makes me think he's got the heart rate of a hummingbird.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Strong words indeed from the great mind that came up with this critique.

They weren't strong words, it was a fact. You have 25,000 posts on here and god knows how many on other sites like Reddit. A large portion of those are over the top responses to people who have a different point of view than you.

If you can tell me how that's typical grown adult behaviour then I'll tell you why I'd happily trade what you consider stupidity for what I consider social skills.

Until then, let's keep it on topic, yeah?

 

[domalino]

They weren't strong words, it was a fact. You have 25,000 posts on here and god knows how many on other sites like Reddit. A large portion of those are over the top responses to people who have a different point of view than you.

If you can tell me how that's typical grown adult behaviour then I'll tell you why I'd happily trade what you consider stupidity for what I consider social skills.

Until then, let's keep it on topic, yeah?

What was the topic again? You thinking Guardiola is refusing to play Foden so he can inflate his possession statistics.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

What was the topic again? You thinking Guardiola is refusing to play Foden so he can inflate his possession statistics.

Not to inflate but to maintain. Considering you and others seem to think that playing Phil in midfield allows us less "control" then I'd have thought that's something you'd agree with.

 

[domalino]

Not to inflate but to maintain. Considering you and others seem to think that playing Phil in midfield allows us less "control" then I'd have thought that's something you'd agree with.

If you said control, and recognised that control = conceding few chances = conceding fewer goals = winning matches, I'd be in full agreement.

But you seem to think the idea is to stroke Pep's ego and not him doing his job of trying to win games.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

If you said control, and recognised that control = conceding few chances = conceding fewer goals = winning matches, I'd be in full agreement.

But you seem to think the idea is to stroke Pep's ego and not him doing his job of trying to win games.

I've never said it has anything to do with his ego. He has a very particular way of getting his teams to play and won't compromise on that. The determination is admirable but the reality is that his way hasn't been working consistently for over a year now.

What is the point in your single method of control if your method hasn't been controlling results? Others are doing a lot more with far less "control" than us and have been doing for a long time now.

So, yes, I think it's justifiable to question the validity of the philosophy of a manager who has repeatedly had his team achieve 60+% possession and lose games.

It's also worth mentioning that not all chances are the same. So when you're saying "concede less chances" you're disregarding the actual quality of chances we often concede. The Spurs game was an example of this. It wasn't the first and it certainly won't be the last.

It's all well and good having 66% possession and having five times as many shots on goal but that is absolutely meaningless when your setup leaves you with a soft underbelly by design.

Is it really controversial to suggest sacrificing the smallest bit of those principles of supposed domination for a bit of what has been working for others?

 

[domalino]

I've never said it has anything to do with his ego. He has a very particular way of getting his teams to play and won't compromise on that. The determination is admirable but the reality is that his way hasn't been working consistently for over a year now.

What is the point in your single method of control if your method hasn't been controlling results? Others are doing a lot more with far less "control" than us and have been doing for a long time now.

So, yes, I think it's justifiable to question the validity of the philosophy of a manager who has repeatedly had his team achieve 60+% possession and lose games.

It's also worth mentioning that not all chances are the same. So when you're saying "concede less chances" you're disregarding the actual quality of chances we often concede. The Spurs game was an example of this. It wasn't the first and it certainly won't be the last.

It's all well and good having 66% possession and having five times as many shots on goal but that is absolutely meaningless when your setup leaves you with a soft underbelly by design.

Is it really controversial to suggest sacrificing the smallest bit of those principles of supposed domination for a bit of what has been working for others?

Pep has been the most successful manager in the world since he signed woth Barcelona, why would he change the principles that have made him that, and one of the best managers in history because of a few weeks of dodgy results in a season with no preseason and with the players not rested? No one has ever had the levels on consistency and absolute dominance over league football as Guardiola. 9 league titles in 12 years has never been seen before and its because of his domination of the ball.

Its completely reactionary to think a spluttering start to this season should mean changing.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Pep has been the most successful manager in the world since he signed woth Barcelona, why would he change the principles that have made him that, and one of the best managers in history because of a few weeks of dodgy results in a season with no preseason and with the players not rested? No one has ever had the levels on consistency and absolute dominance over league football as Guardiola. 9 league titles in 12 years has never been seen before and its because of his domination of the ball.

Its completely reactionary to think a spluttering start to this season should mean changing.

It's been over a year. Hard to call that reactionary.

 

[domalino]

It's been over a year. Hard to call that reactionary.

Has it?

We spent most of the season without Laporte and Stones. Obviously losing both your CB's is going to fuck up a season. Should Klopp rip up everything in June because Liverpool did badly without VVD and Gomez?

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Has it?

We spent most of the season without Laporte and Stones. Obviously losing both your CB's is going to fuck up a season. Should Klopp rip up everything in June because Liverpool did badly without VVD and Gomez?

Interesting that you've brought them up when they've handled losing their centrebacks way better than we did. They adapted. We didn't.