nellyonthewing
Well-Known Member
Last Season we had Gundogan ,Mahrez and a fitter KDB.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
9 | Erling Haaland - 2023/24
- Thread starter MAG
- Start date
nellyonthewing
Well-Known Member
I recall when we played Dortmund and he never laid a glove on us . At that time I couldn't see what the hype was. Maybe his confidence is shot, maybe its the system but when I watch him in the game I really struggle to see what he's adding. He is a passenger in many recent games and needs to deliver..And this sums it up to a tee.
When we signed Haaland I had one big concern about him at Dortmund, and that was that he doubled and trebled down on sides, often when the game was won, but failed to score in more games than he did, and looked like a bit of a plank in such games.
When we signed Haaland, we already had the best team in the world and one that scored a hell of a lot of goals. However, what we did have was a tendency to be profligate in some games, and we signed him to remedy that.
Of course, he's a great goalscorer against the poor to decent sides. In fact, in those games, he has an average akin to Dixie Dean at his peak. Is what we need, though, somebody who will score hat-tricks in games we are likely to win anyway? Do we need a stat-padder? When I'm looking at vital goals at vital times, I can see he did it a couple of times against Everton and Brentford and for that we were grateful, but there haven't been many other occasions. The goals come in spurts against teams who can't get a grip of us, and even then, he's far from prolific. He misses a sack load of sitters. He just happens to be the best in the world at losing poor defenders, and that skillset is the entire reason why he's so revered. Not because of the quality of his finishing.
The key issue is that in the big games we are playing with a sack of spuds up front who simply isn't contributing to the team. We are effectively playing with ten men, and top defences find him very easy to nullify.
I look at the truly great strikers and they don't always have to rely on service. Sergio Aguero, for example, was a proper footballer who could fashion chances for himself, who could score out of nothing. Haaland isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Sergio, at least not the current version.
At the end of the day, if you use a flat goals to game ratio, then Haaland will always be up there with the greatest, but it masks a very real problem, and that is that the greatest goal scorer of all against crap defenders is actually rank average when playing against quality defenders. This wasn't what we bought him for.
Kane is not the reason Bayern's loosing their league, he's the top goal scorer in the league, most likely breaking Lewandowski's record, so totally not his fault.I don’t agree Kane would have been better than Haaland. He’d have scored a shed load of goals of course but better? Not for me.
He’d also have cost three times as much (minimum £150m plus we’d have been directly strengthening a rivals financials), be on at least the same wages and he’s 31 in a few months with little to no sell on value.
Couple that with big Erl’s worldwide appeal vs Kane’s limited domestic appeal and we’d likely be looking at a total financial package of many hundreds of millions against Haaland total package of near zero when you consider the future transfer profit alongside the financial benefits having the worlds best striker playing for us brings.
Not to forget that signing Kane has lead to Bayern losing their title for the first time in a decade.
Coincidence? I think not.
Not for me, Kane. A media darling (in the uk) for sure. An upgrade on Haaland? Not for me. Not even close.
I have always maintained we could have signed prime Messi at this club and we’d have had to read many of the bluemoon massive digging him out after a few months.
Can someone please tell me who was available then or now for £51m that would’ve been even half as effective? (Apart from Troy Deeney obvs. That’s a given)
If we lost the league last season whilst Haaland broke the league scoring record, would you of blamed Haaland for that?
There's nothing wrong with criticising Haaland when he doesn't perform, no player is beyond criticism!
Luddite_Blue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 252
I was curious if I was just imagining us passing the ball less to him or if it was just confirmation bias so I had a look on FBref and found the following:
Progressive passes received
2021/22 Dortmund - 6.45 which was 46th percentile
2022/23 City - 4.91 which was 33rd percentile
2023/24 City - 4.41 which is the 20th percentile
Touches in opposition box
2021/22 Dortmund - 7.02 which was 97th percentile
2022/23 City - 7.05 which was 92nd percentile
2023/24 City - 6.17 which is the 82nd percentile
I think his finishing, especially earlier in the season has been worse than last year but it certainly looks like we are creating less and less. This tallies with us being outscored by both Liverpool and Arsenal which never happens.
Is it the lack of Gundogan or Kevin's injuries? The lack of any real goal threat from out wide?
One of the most striking and impressive things about Haaland last season, to me, was when the ball broke in the penalty area he often got there before the central defenders. Given his size I was often wondering how does he consistently react quicker over 3 yards than the central defenders? - was it because he was constantly on the move in the area? This seems less in evidence this season and certainly since he's returned from injury.
Progressive passes received
2021/22 Dortmund - 6.45 which was 46th percentile
2022/23 City - 4.91 which was 33rd percentile
2023/24 City - 4.41 which is the 20th percentile
Touches in opposition box
2021/22 Dortmund - 7.02 which was 97th percentile
2022/23 City - 7.05 which was 92nd percentile
2023/24 City - 6.17 which is the 82nd percentile
The stats above for last season seem remarkable to me of having 7.05 touches in opposition box whilst receiving 4.91 progressive passes and additionally the fact that he eclipsed the number of touches in the box for Dortmund, where he was extremely prolific, whilst moving to a more competitive league and receiving significantly fewer progressive passes than the 6.45 he got at Dortmund in 2021/22.
Maybe part of the issue is that last season (and especially in the first half) he put in an almost superhuman level of performance that wasn't ever likely to be sustainable over any length of time and particularly when other sides adapted their defending to him.
Moss Side's Finest
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 1,165
It ain't rocket science! We all know the points in games he can be used better, it's usually when he's on the edge of the offside trap pointing frantically where he wants the ball played by someone in midfield, who then decides to turn around and play the ball back to a defender. We have won titles doing that yes, but now and again quick balls to him through the centre would catch teams out."Use him correctly"
Professor "Moss Side's Finest", please tell us this "correct" way of using Haaland that Pep hasn't figured out yet, which you mysteriously know
Yes Haaland did break records last season and he deserved to, he's a very special player and no one can take that away from him. My conclusion is still that, he has been figured out and it's up to him to adapt and evolve his game. His goal scoring drought, didn't start this season, you can go back to the end of last season, from about the UCL quarter finals, he was already struggling to score goals.
You can't be the "best striker", if you always rely on service and can't create a goal for yourself.
Regarding your last paragraph, utter nonsense! Stikers are judged on goals scored, it's quite binary. I'd take a 40 goal a season tap in merchant than a 10 goal a season Messi wannabe
Moss Side's Finest
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 3 Oct 2018
- Messages
- 1,165
Absolute tripe, and the fact that others are agreeing with you tells me so much about how entitled our fanbase has become. "Rank average" , deary meAnd this sums it up to a tee.
When we signed Haaland I had one big concern about him at Dortmund, and that was that he doubled and trebled down on sides, often when the game was won, but failed to score in more games than he did, and looked like a bit of a plank in such games.
When we signed Haaland, we already had the best team in the world and one that scored a hell of a lot of goals. However, what we did have was a tendency to be profligate in some games, and we signed him to remedy that.
Of course, he's a great goalscorer against the poor to decent sides. In fact, in those games, he has an average akin to Dixie Dean at his peak. Is what we need, though, somebody who will score hat-tricks in games we are likely to win anyway? Do we need a stat-padder? When I'm looking at vital goals at vital times, I can see he did it a couple of times against Everton and Brentford and for that we were grateful, but there haven't been many other occasions. The goals come in spurts against teams who can't get a grip of us, and even then, he's far from prolific. He misses a sack load of sitters. He just happens to be the best in the world at losing poor defenders, and that skillset is the entire reason why he's so revered. Not because of the quality of his finishing.
The key issue is that in the big games we are playing with a sack of spuds up front who simply isn't contributing to the team. We are effectively playing with ten men, and top defences find him very easy to nullify.
I look at the truly great strikers and they don't always have to rely on service. Sergio Aguero, for example, was a proper footballer who could fashion chances for himself, who could score out of nothing. Haaland isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Sergio, at least not the current version.
At the end of the day, if you use a flat goals to game ratio, then Haaland will always be up there with the greatest, but it masks a very real problem, and that is that the greatest goal scorer of all against crap defenders is actually rank average when playing against quality defenders. This wasn't what we bought him for.
I remember that treble we won with no striker. Great timesAnd this sums it up to a tee.
When we signed Haaland I had one big concern about him at Dortmund, and that was that he doubled and trebled down on sides, often when the game was won, but failed to score in more games than he did, and looked like a bit of a plank in such games.
When we signed Haaland, we already had the best team in the world and one that scored a hell of a lot of goals. However, what we did have was a tendency to be profligate in some games, and we signed him to remedy that.
Of course, he's a great goalscorer against the poor to decent sides. In fact, in those games, he has an average akin to Dixie Dean at his peak. Is what we need, though, somebody who will score hat-tricks in games we are likely to win anyway? Do we need a stat-padder? When I'm looking at vital goals at vital times, I can see he did it a couple of times against Everton and Brentford and for that we were grateful, but there haven't been many other occasions. The goals come in spurts against teams who can't get a grip of us, and even then, he's far from prolific. He misses a sack load of sitters. He just happens to be the best in the world at losing poor defenders, and that skillset is the entire reason why he's so revered. Not because of the quality of his finishing.
The key issue is that in the big games we are playing with a sack of spuds up front who simply isn't contributing to the team. We are effectively playing with ten men, and top defences find him very easy to nullify.
I look at the truly great strikers and they don't always have to rely on service. Sergio Aguero, for example, was a proper footballer who could fashion chances for himself, who could score out of nothing. Haaland isn't fit to be mentioned in the same breath as Sergio, at least not the current version.
At the end of the day, if you use a flat goals to game ratio, then Haaland will always be up there with the greatest, but it masks a very real problem, and that is that the greatest goal scorer of all against crap defenders is actually rank average when playing against quality defenders. This wasn't what we bought him for.
Just one big game performance Haaland, I beg you..
Derbies not count?Just one big game performance Haaland, I beg you...
Do you think last seasons team was better than the centurion team or one that won the domestic treble? Or that rag team that won the treble was better than the 2008 team that had Tevez, Rooney, Ronaldo etc?I remember that treble we won with no striker. Great times