a secular society by 2030

[DelToro]

CoE vicar on "This Morning"

"I don't think we should encourage people to be proud they are gay"

Fuck off you ****. Bring back the lions and the arena.

Aged 14 whilst at high school, I very vividly remember all of my friends starting discussions about sex and girls and who they fancied. I didn't get any of it, I wasn't interested and just carried on minding my own business. As that school year went on, I realised why: I wasn't attracted to the girls like all of my other friends, but the lads.

For two whole years, I was terrified that people would find out. I wanted to be the same as my friends, I wanted to fancy the girls and I didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to spend every day in school worrying that people would discover my secret and use it as a weapon against me. I didn't want to have the threat of being beaten up because of the people that I found attractive. I didn't want to grow up into a world where, if I walk down the street holding the hand of a partner, I would get more noticeable looks and more people staring than if I was holding a girl's hand.

Every hour of every day was spent with torment trying to, firstly, work out what was going on in my brain and then, secondly, try and come to terms with it and accept it. I was fortunate that I never really hated that side of myself, but there are so many teenagers who do. Throw into the mix the number of young people who kill themselves because of their sexuality and the society they live in's reaction to it - bullied at school, disowned by parents or family.

And it's statements like this one made by some buffoon on TV that does nothing for the self-esteem of teenagers worrying about their sexuality and attitudes towards them from other teenagers.

*sigh*

A very heartfelt and honest post that should be compulsory reading for the narrow minded bigots on here who masquerade as caring Christians,and one that should make them reconsider their outdated and blinkered worldview and see just how out of touch the intolerant dogma of their church is with the reality of growing up as a gay person in today's society.
Sadly I am not holding my breath that it will make a jot of difference.

Well said, all of you.

 

[Shadz69]

Another nail in the coffin for the church over here.This priest is well liked and respected in Ireland and he likened it to the inquisition .'frightening, disproportionate and reminiscent of the Inquisition'.It also looks like he has the support of his priests union
The ACP yesterday affirmed “in the strongest possible terms” its support for Fr Flannery. It believed he was being targeted as “part of a worldwide effort to negate the influence of independent priests’ associations in Austria, USA, Germany, France, Switzerland”.

Also at yesterday’s press conference was Fr Helmut Schuller of the Austrian Priests’ Initiative. He was “very surprised they [CDF] came down on Tony and on Ireland”. He criticised the “lack of basic rights and respect for personal conscience” in the church.
A lot of church goers I know are not happy with this and the constant silencing of priests is gonna cost Rome dear.


AN OUTSPOKEN cleric is facing excommunication for suggesting women might become priests in the future.

Fr Tony Flannery, who also writes on religious matters, said he is being forced to choose between Rome and his conscience, and is taking legal advice under canon and civil law.

The 66-year-old, who joined the Redemptorists in 1964, said he has been told by the Vatican that if he wants to remain in the church and in his congregation he must end his involvement with the liberal Association of Catholic Priests (ACP).

He added that the ban on him ministering, which was imposed by the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), will continue until he fulfils the terms laid down by Rome.

This includes publishing an article that has been pre-approved by the CDF and accepting that the Catholic Church can never ordain women. He says he must also accept the church's stance on contraception and homosexuality and its refusal of the sacraments to people in second relationships.

Despite being ordered not to engage with the media, Fr Flannery said: "I have served the church, the Redemptorists and the people of God for two-thirds of my life.

Subversive

"I have in good conscience raised issues I believed important for the future of the church in books and essays largely read by practising Catholics, rather than raising them in mainstream media.

"I'm hardly a major and subversive figure within the church deserving excommunication."

He has now decided to step down from the leadership of the ACP, which numbers more than 1,000 Irish priests, saying he does not want to have his circumstances blurred with the association's agenda.

Fr Flannery was silenced last year after a complaint about his views on the church's ban on artificial birth control and support for the ordination of women made its way to the "Vatican civil service".

The ACP said in a statement that it believed the "targeting of Fr Flannery" is not about church teaching but part of a worldwide effort to negate the influence of independent priests' associations.

Fr Helmut Schuller, the leader of the Austrian Priests' Initiative, a reform-minded group similar to the ACP, described Fr Flannery's treatment as "a scandal".

Formerly a monsignor, he was demoted following his group's "call for disobedience" on issues such as married priests and female priests.

A statement from the Irish Redemptorist Community said: "Although not all Redemptorists would accept Fr Flannery's views, we understand and support his efforts to listen carefully to and at times to articulate the views of people he encounters in the course of his ministry."

- Sarah MacDonald

Irish Independent

 

[Damocles]

I see no problem with the above.

The Church is a private club. It has its own rules and code of ethics to join. If you don't follow those code of ethics, you get kicked out of that club.
It's nothing to do with us how the Church treats its members outside of the wider moral implications of society.

Banning women shows them to be hypocrites, especially as they worship a guy who spent most of his later life going round and preaching about social justice and equality, but if we have to post in this thread every time a religious institution shows themselves to be a hypocrite then we would literally be here all day.

 

[Ian Paisley]

If it gets rid of christmas in its present form then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing.Many have declared themselves as non believers but happily celebrate christmas and other christian celebrations marriage etc.Christianity is the backbone of our society and it would be rather sad to see it eroded away.It's part of our history and heritage.I think many would understand it better if there were not so many denominations of what is the same thing.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

If it gets rid of christmas in its present form then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing.Many have declared themselves as non believers but happily celebrate christmas and other christian celebrations marriage etc.Christianity is the backbone of our society and it would be rather sad to see it eroded away.It's part of our history and heritage.I think many would understand it better if there were not so many denominations of what is the same thing.

I must admit that a distinct lack of religious holidays is possibly not atheism's strongest selling point.
I think that I personally would understand Christianity better if it wasn't completely fabricated homophobic and misogynistic claptrap.

 

[Scareye]

If it gets rid of christmas in its present form then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing.Many have declared themselves as non believers but happily celebrate christmas and other christian celebrations marriage etc.Christianity is the backbone of our society and it would be rather sad to see it eroded away.It's part of our history and heritage.I think many would understand it better if there were not so many denominations of what is the same thing.

I must admit that a distinct lack of religious holidays is possibly not atheism's strongest selling point.
I think that I personally would understand Christianity better if it wasn't completely fabricated homophobic and misogynistic claptrap.

Looks like you understand it perfectly well.

 

[Damocles]

If it gets rid of christmas in its present form then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing.Many have declared themselves as non believers but happily celebrate christmas and other christian celebrations marriage etc.Christianity is the backbone of our society and it would be rather sad to see it eroded away.It's part of our history and heritage.I think many would understand it better if there were not so many denominations of what is the same thing.

Did you read your own post?

In the exact same paragraph you have said that Christmas is a Christian holiday and inferred that non-believers are hypocrites for celebrating it. Then you say that Christianity is part of our culture and heritage but have not made the connection that this also means that Christmas is part of our heritage and culture so isn't a religious holiday any more.

You've managed to argue against your point whilst arguing your point.

 

[andyhinch]

Aged 14 whilst at high school, I very vividly remember all of my friends starting discussions about sex and girls and who they fancied. I didn't get any of it, I wasn't interested and just carried on minding my own business. As that school year went on, I realised why: I wasn't attracted to the girls like all of my other friends, but the lads.

For two whole years, I was terrified that people would find out. I wanted to be the same as my friends, I wanted to fancy the girls and I didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to spend every day in school worrying that people would discover my secret and use it as a weapon against me. I didn't want to have the threat of being beaten up because of the people that I found attractive. I didn't want to grow up into a world where, if I walk down the street holding the hand of a partner, I would get more noticeable looks and more people staring than if I was holding a girl's hand.

Every hour of every day was spent with torment trying to, firstly, work out what was going on in my brain and then, secondly, try and come to terms with it and accept it. I was fortunate that I never really hated that side of myself, but there are so many teenagers who do. Throw into the mix the number of young people who kill themselves because of their sexuality and the society they live in's reaction to it - bullied at school, disowned by parents or family.

And it's statements like this one made by some buffoon on TV that does nothing for the self-esteem of teenagers worrying about their sexuality and attitudes towards them from other teenagers.

*sigh*

A very touching and sobering post mate. I can't begin to think how I'd have coped with those feelings (on top of the usual teenage feelings of vulnerability and angst).

He went on to say that teaching children about homosexuality at school would lead to pupils being confused about which they should pick. It was ridiculous and to be fair to Holly, she did say she couldn't believe that he had just said that and didn't agree with him.

I still don't know why he was given the opportunity to spout his outdated feelings to the nation though.

To be honest, for me that WAS the teenage angst and vulnerability. I think all that comes from different experiences and we all have our own shit to deal with - mine was working out why I was gay, while other people have other things.

The whole teaching will lead to more gays things is baffling, though. I had very little teaching of homosexuality; if I had, I might have had a less angsty time.

Great post mate

 

[pominoz]

I see no problem with the above.

The Church is a private club. It has its own rules and code of ethics to join. If you don't follow those code of ethics, you get kicked out of that club.
It's nothing to do with us how the Church treats its members outside of the wider moral implications of society.

Banning women shows them to be hypocrites, especially as they worship a guy who spent most of his later life going round and preaching about social justice and equality, but if we have to post in this thread every time a religious institution shows themselves to be a hypocrite then we would literally be here all day.

This is a big issue in Australia at the moment, as,

"In recent weeks the issue of ''faith-based'' organisations being allowed to discriminate against its employees and those in its care has reached a level of public discussion that is unprecedented in Australia. That's because attitudes have changed.

At issue is the fact that religious organisations are very large employers. They run hospitals, charity groups, nursing homes, employment services and schools. In doing so, these groups have long argued for exemptions to Commonwealth anti-discrimination laws on the grounds of "religious freedom".
In truth this matter is all about maintaining homophobia, not religious freedom."

I can not believe that our "Atheist" PM has bent over for these arseholes.


Read more: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/exemptions-for-religious-groups-keep-fears-alive-20130121-2d2f8.html#ixzz2IfPfI8Kq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/exempt ... z2IfPfI8Kq</a>

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I see no problem with the above.

The Church is a private club. It has its own rules and code of ethics to join. If you don't follow those code of ethics, you get kicked out of that club.
It's nothing to do with us how the Church treats its members outside of the wider moral implications of society.

Banning women shows them to be hypocrites, especially as they worship a guy who spent most of his later life going round and preaching about social justice and equality, but if we have to post in this thread every time a religious institution shows themselves to be a hypocrite then we would literally be here all day.

This is a big issue in Australia at the moment, as,

"In recent weeks the issue of ''faith-based'' organisations being allowed to discriminate against its employees and those in its care has reached a level of public discussion that is unprecedented in Australia. That's because attitudes have changed.

At issue is the fact that religious organisations are very large employers. They run hospitals, charity groups, nursing homes, employment services and schools. In doing so, these groups have long argued for exemptions to Commonwealth anti-discrimination laws on the grounds of "religious freedom".
In truth this matter is all about maintaining homophobia, not religious freedom."

I can not believe that our "Atheist" PM has bent over for these arseholes.


Read more: <a class="postlink" href="http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/exemptions-for-religious-groups-keep-fears-alive-20130121-2d2f8.html#ixzz2IfPfI8Kq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/exempt ... z2IfPfI8Kq</a>

Your atheist PM is obviously more pragmatic and deep thinking then. As Damo said the church, ( in the broadest sense, Christian, muslim, mormon, whatever) is a club, with it's own rules and if you don't like them, or think them homophobic, misogynistic, or archaic then don't join.