A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps.

[johnny on the spot]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

tbf the pilot who needs to "do your fucking job" has paid a pretty high price

that's if he wasn't doing his job in the first place

as I said, if.

but if, the lives of all the innocent people he's taken with him because he can't sit in his seat from Barca to Dusseldorf, outweighs anything else.

I still think it would be possible to do it even if both in the cockpit. Basically if a pilot turns his control stick sharply, he could take the plane into a dive that would be hard to come back from as the other pilot would not know initially what was happening and would be looking for guidance from the other who is part of it.

However there should not be a door that cannot under any circumstances be opened. Surely there has to be a key pad entry or finger print entry or something like that.

The airlines need to come up with a solution to this because two of these in less than a year must be a worry to them as an industry.

You can torture a keycode out of someone or cut off a hand, no plan is foolproof.

 

[Gray]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

Urgently needed:-

1. Three people in cockpit, only one allowed out at any time.
2. Live video feed of cockpit to ground controllers.
3. Ability to override locked cockpit door by the cabin crew.
4. Facility to take over control of the aircraft by experts on the ground, should be possible in this electronic age.
5. Better vetting of all pilots.

 

[inbetween]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

tbf the pilot who needs to "do your fucking job" has paid a pretty high price

that's if he wasn't doing his job in the first place

as I said, if.

but if, the lives of all the innocent people he's taken with him because he can't sit in his seat from Barca to Dusseldorf, outweighs anything else.

I still think it would be possible to do it even if both in the cockpit. Basically if a pilot turns his control stick sharply, he could take the plane into a dive that would be hard to come back from as the other pilot would not know initially what was happening and would be looking for guidance from the other who is part of it.

However there should not be a door that cannot under any circumstances be opened. Surely there has to be a key pad entry or finger print entry or something like that.

The airlines need to come up with a solution to this because two of these in less than a year must be a worry to them as an industry.

You can't do that in an A320. The A320 has protections to precisely stop pilots making actions which jeopardise safe flight. it is near impossible for example to stall an A320 because it won't allow you to pitch to the point of stall.

It is possible I guess but the protections ensure that anything you do is controlled, it simply won't allow you to enter into a controlled spin that can't be recovered from. Even a complete loss in airspeed and the throttles automatically enter a mode where they go straight to full power, it is a very technologically advanced aircraft. The only other way around the protections is to disable the protections by disabling the flight computers which is easy enough but the other pilot would certainly notice!

Deliberate, controlled flight into terrain is not something the aircraft is designed to protect against which is I believe the only real explanation. It isn't confirmed yet but everything seems to match up in this case.

On the cockpit door, there is the argument of what is the point in having a locking system if it can be opened from the outside. Most terrorist scenarios assume the cabin crew are compromised and therefore the cockpit door becomes the last line of defence from hijackers taking control. It defeats the object of the entire thing if the cabin crew can quite simply open it if a hijacker told them to do so.

There are cameras now on most aircraft which enable the flight crew to see who is on the otherside of the door and then they can deny entry. This all rests though on the fact you implicitly trust the flight crew on the cockpit side of the door. Unfortunately this scenario exposes that disadvantage clearly. It is very rare though, the MH370 suicide scenario is completely unproven so the Germanwings crash is perhaps the only real example of this happening relatively recently. When you figure that there are thousands of flights a day, it is extremely rare, certainly rare enough to justify the cockpit door should stay locked and authority staying solely with the flying crew.

 

[foetus]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

Completely fucked if it's suicide. Most selfish way of doing it if true. Hopefully it's not...still more info to come out surely.

 

[Ducado]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

The pilot who allegedly committed suicide must of been relying on a lot of pot luck for the other pilot to get up and leave the cockpit on his own accord and then be able to lock him out. Unless he has come up with some excuse for him to leave. Can't see him spontaneously thinking fuck it while "john" isn't here I'm going to drive this thing into a mountain. Very strange.....

Very good point

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

The pilot who allegedly committed suicide must of been relying on a lot of pot luck for the other pilot to get up and leave the cockpit on his own accord and then be able to lock him out. Unless he has come up with some excuse for him to leave. Can't see him spontaneously thinking fuck it while "john" isn't here I'm going to drive this thing into a mountain. Very strange.....

Very good point

as they likely do multiple legs in one day, if he's committed to it on that day, he'll be flying at least one leg so he just has to wait for his opportunity. IF, of course, he did down it on purpose.

 

[inbetween]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

The pilot who allegedly committed suicide must of been relying on a lot of pot luck for the other pilot to get up and leave the cockpit on his own accord and then be able to lock him out. Unless he has come up with some excuse for him to leave. Can't see him spontaneously thinking fuck it while "john" isn't here I'm going to drive this thing into a mountain. Very strange.....

Very good point

Think of it though, the most stressful part for pilots is takeoff and landing followed by the climb/descent, once the plane reached cruise then that is the time to put your feet up and maybe go to the toilet as opposed to the busy period during the climb. Potentially the pilot may not of left and this may not of happened but that is all in hindsight, he could of been waiting for days for the right opportunity? We just don't know.

No-one wants to say it was suicide but at the moment nothing points to anything else beyond an incredible coincidence of the pilot left inside for some reason starting a descent and then losing consciousness.. I don't buy it.

The Airbus also has a sidestick for control to the left/right of each seat. Even if he fell unconscious there is no way he could of for example fallen forwards onto a control column like many imagine which is on the Boeing's which would pitch the plane down. This is an A320 cockpit and you can see how lurching forwards would not interact.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

tbf the pilot who needs to "do your fucking job" has paid a pretty high price

that's if he wasn't doing his job in the first place

as I said, if.

but if, the lives of all the innocent people he's taken with him because he can't sit in his seat from Barca to Dusseldorf, outweighs anything else.

well we could all sit here making up ridiculous scenarios to back up ludicrous attacks on a recently killed pilot, such as a woman on row 13 was having a heart attack and the cabin crew called the pilot out to make an assessment

cabin crew are trained to deal with that situation, from my perspective there's no excuse, but the rules need changing, 2 people should have to be in the cockpit at all times and pilots, unless given permission for an override in a communicated emergency, should not be able to take the plane of its scheduled course. With all the gizmos available these days, every plane should be able to be monitored by both ATC, the airline and manufacturer and overrides allowed in case of emergency, You have to take the ability to do this away from pilots.

 

[Sir peace frog]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

Urgently needed:-

1. Three people in cockpit, only one allowed out at any time.
2. Live video feed of cockpit to ground controllers.
3. Ability to override locked cockpit door by the cabin crew.
4. Facility to take over control of the aircraft by experts on the ground, should be possible in this electronic age.
5. Better vetting of all pilots.

hackers can get into the most secure places in the world and you want

4. Facility to take over control of the aircraft by experts on the ground, should be possible in this electronic age

no fucking chance.


if this is true and it was pilot suicide ,then I reckon if a pilot wants to take a plane out of the sky nothing would be able to stop them

 

[marco]

Re: A320 Airbus Crashes In The Alps. BBC

the cockpit door is locked by the pilot via a switch, when the 2nd pilot returned he has a code to punch in, this does not open the door it activates an alarm and the ruling is the pilot in charge looks on the CCTV to see who he's letting in then he unlocks it with the switch, there are other ways to open the door from the cabin which have not been disclosed for obvious reasons. if the returning pilot had tried the opening procedure from the cabin he would have gained entry' that's 100% fail proof' as he didnt get back in that indicates the door locking system had been tampered with, 100% a suicide job here