Afghanistan

[Bigga]

What are “bad faith arguments”?

The withdrawal from Afghanistan has made the world a more unsafe place. Has allowed morally bankrupt religious fanatics to take over a key region, allowed Russia and China to strengthen and made even more extreme groups, wishing to inflict terror on the world, stronger, with a chance at another platform region.

The fallout from it is worse than breaking a promise with the Taliban and staying. The US had control and could have maintained it.

It’s not just the operational side, it’s his blatant disregard for human life and his lies to make himself look better in the short term.

He promised less than a fortnight ago to get every American out or the troops will stay… well not every American is out and his troops are now completely out.

Biden's broken promise: President shamefully leaves Americans behind in Afghanistan

America can no longer with a straight face say we leave no one behind. And the people I’ve spoken with are seething, embarrassed, ashamed.

www.google.co.uk

“What about Trump and the American right” doesn’t cut it in September 2021, the Dems are in charge and they have the blood of American servicemen and innocent Afghan’s on their hands.

Just have a Google of the families of the killed Americans to get their take.

I get it, Biden is your man and he’s on the side you prefer, but this fingers in ears defence on here is sad.

I’ve not even mentioned the Afghan’s the allied forces have left behind.

The UK less so as we weren’t the key decision makers but also culpable in this department.

The ONLY thing I disagree with here is the need for another country's army's continued occupancy of some other country.

The US were there under false pretence anyway; liars that they and the UK gov are.

 

[Bigga]

No one has defended Biden over the withdrawal operation. Mistakes were made, Biden acknowledged they had miscalculated the strength and viability of the Afghan Govt and military, a consequence of this was the chaos that was the background to the operation. An operation that eventually evacuated some 120,000 people

Bad faith arguments are made by political opponents who in this instance refuse to acknowledge the steps that led to this point, the actions of previous administrations, and cynically use the situation for political point scoring. It is why I give your posts short shrift.

Did I introduce you to this?

Here, anyway, it might just tick a few boxes...

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

@Bigga
I fail to see why you gleefully attack Biden for withdrawing from Afghanistan. Did you want the US to stay in Afghanistan and continue the decades long war? Presumably you did not.

So, yes, the Afghan withdrawal was very badly mismanaged. But this occurred because the Afghan government collapsed so rapidly. Turning a manageable evacuation under the auspices of the US-backed Afghan government, into a disorderly chaotic retreat under a nescient Taliban government.

That the evacuation fiasco occurred is on Biden for sure. Somehow, US intelligence about how rapid Taliban takeover would transpire wasn't forceful enough to convince Biden to take this into account - but such intelligence was out there... and if given credence - a more orderly evacuation might have occured.
===
But the US is now out of Afghanistan - ending a senseless, decades long, doomed, but well-intentioned act of nation building. Meanwhile @Bigga is rejoicing in how many lives were lost getting the US out of this mess.

 

[Octavian]

The ONLY thing I disagree with here is the need for another country's army's continued occupancy of some other country.

The US were there under false pretence anyway; liars that they and the UK gov are.

I just don’t see another option for the time being considering the relatively peaceful last 2 years.

Regarding the 00s, I don’t think anyone backs the Iraq war now, it was a fuck up of epic proportions and I’m just sad young relatives of mine went.

Afghan 01 was a complex one, we needed Al Qaeda but whether it was Pakistan’s government we needed to pressure to give them up or more we could have done with the Taliban, I don’t know.

I’m against foreign wars if they can be avoided, I’ve seen what it did to my nephews.

 

[Bigga]

@Bigga
I fail to see why you gleefully attack Biden for withdrawing from Afghanistan. Did you want the US to stay in Afghanistan and continue the decades long war? Presumably you did not.

So, yes, the Afghan withdrawal was very badly mismanaged. But primarily this occurred because the Afghan government collapsed so rapidly. Turning a manageable evacuation under the auspices of the US-backed Afghan government, into a disorderly chaotic retreat under a nescient Taliban government.

That this occurred is on Biden for sure. Somehow, US intelligence about how rapid Taliban takeover would occur wasn't forceful enough to convince Biden to take this into account.
===
But the US is now out of Afghanistan - ending a senseless, decades long, doomed, but well-intentioned act of nation building.

So, interestingly enough, many of your questions are answered within the video above. That the US had 'poor intelligence' is a blatant lie. Blatant.

But, yes, I wanted the troops out of Afghanistan, but as I've stated before (which was ignored yet again) how could the US enter a country and not have a feasible exit plan for EVERY situation over the last 20 years?

And, not to evacuate necessary civilians at risk over 7 months is shocking!

And, lastly, why 7 months extension when you might as well asked for a year? Was the '9/11' target so important as some sort of symbolism?

If so, well that's fell flat on its face, hasn't it?

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

So, interestingly enough, many of your questions are answered within the video above. That the US had 'poor intelligence' is a blatant lie. Blatant.

But, yes, I wanted the troops out of Afghanistan, but as I've stated before (which was ignored yet again) how could the US enter a country and not have a feasible exit plan for EVERY situation over the last 20 years?

And, not to evacuate necessary civilians at risk over 7 months is shocking!

And, lastly, why 7 months extension when you might as well asked for a year? Was the '9/11' target so important as some sort of symbolism?

If so, well that's fell flat on its face, hasn't it?

>> That the US had 'poor intelligence' is a blatant lie. Blatant.
I never claimed that the US did not have intelligence that this might transpire. I claimed that it wasn't forceful enough to convince Biden - why? Because, presumably a lot of other intelligence argued exactly the opposite.

Biden made a mistake in believing the intelligence counter to what's transpired - or at least considering this likely enough to take it into account. It's on him. But he got the US out of Afghanistan.
===
A final point - some argue that we should have stayed much longer - evacuating many more people.

Given the obviously inadequate security screening carried out by Taliban checkpoints prior to Afghan citizens coming face-to-face with US soldiers, staying any longer than we did would simply result in more suicide bombings. Given the mess that we were in, getting out as soon as we did was absolutely the right thing to do.

Now, we will work with the Taliban to secure safe passage later on for those whom we couldn't initially evacuate.

 

[Bigga]

>> That the US had 'poor intelligence' is a blatant lie. Blatant.
I never claimed that the US did not have intelligence that this might transpire. I claimed that it wasn't forceful enough to convince Biden - why? Because, presumably a lot of other intelligence argued exactly the opposite.

Biden made a mistake in believing the intelligence counter to what's transpired - or at least considering this likely enough to take it into account. It's on him. But he got the US out of Afghanistan.

Does that mean you agree with the rest of the unanswered post?

 

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

Does that mean you agree with the rest of the unanswered post?

For starters - do you disagree with what I posted?

Secondly, I'm not sure what you mean with "the rest of the unanswered post" - which to me is something about why a particular deadline was set.

I've already stated, quite clearly - getting the fuck out of there as soon as possible - given the entirely inadequate security - was absolutely necessary. You mention asking for a year's extension - well thank God that didn't happen.

Do you honestly think that the security situation on the ground in Afghanistan was at all robust? It's a bloody miracle that more lives weren't lost. We needed to get out of there ASAP.

 

[Bigga]

For starters - do you disagree with what I posted?

Secondly, I'm not sure what you mean with "the rest of the unanswered post" - which to me is something about why a particular deadline was set.

I've already stated, quite clearly - getting the fuck out of there as soon as possible - given the entirely inadequate security - was absolutely necessary. You mention asking for a year's extension - well thank God that didn't happen.

Do you honestly think that the security situation on the ground in Afghanistan was at all robust? It's a bloody miracle that more lives weren't lost. We needed to get out of there ASAP.

Not only the US gov know, they knew by a very credible source as it was one of their own generals that said this.

The year's extension was about getting people out with considerably less death than what happened as the result. There would been no need very the 'robust' action that happened.

Not sure why you see this as an issue?

 

[BobKowalski]

I just don’t see another option for the time being considering the relatively peaceful last 2 years.

Regarding the 00s, I don’t think anyone backs the Iraq war now, it was a fuck up of epic proportions and I’m just sad young relatives of mine went.

Afghan 01 was a complex one, we needed Al Qaeda but whether it was Pakistan’s government we needed to pressure to give them up or more we could have done with the Taliban, I don’t know.

I’m against foreign wars if they can be avoided, I’ve seen what it did to my nephews.

Because the US signed a peace deal stating they would withdraw by May of this year in exchange for a ceasefire.

Jeez.