Afghanistan

metalblue said:
They was saying on the radio yesterday that they taliban issue 3 statements, one in English, one in Afghan and one in (I forget, Punjab maybe? as they have a lot of Pakistani fighters in their midst). Anyroads they said that all 3 said something different to appeal to those whose language it was. They told us what they thought we wanted to hear, can’t trust them as far as I can throw them
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Pashto not Punjab? It has 45 Arabic naskh letters......funny scribbles to me. Must be a bugger to learn.
 
I’m angry at the government for putting our soldiers into this dreadful, dangerous position it’s extremely hard for them to process with thousands of frightened women and children desperate to board a plane.
 
Ministers 'clearly took no notice' of warnings US withdrawal would destabilise Afghanistan, peer claims

A report submitted to the government back in January warned that the US withdrawal risked undermining the Afghan government and allowing the country to descend into civil war.

But Baroness Smith of Newnham, a former member of the International Relations and Defence Select Committee which issued the report, told Sky News the government "clearly took no notice" of the warnings.

She said: "The fact that the foreign secretary seems not to have understood the gravity of the situation is absolutely extraordinary.

"In our report back in January we were absolutely clear there were very real dangers linked to the American withdrawal, and we said there should be a pause in troop withdrawal.

"But the government clearly took no notice, waiting to take a lead from the United States."
 
Former Afghan judge Najla Ayoubi, the chief of coalition and global programmes at Every Woman Treaty which campaigns to end violence against women, said she had to "flee for my life" from the Taliban for constantly speaking for women's rights.

She told Sky News she has been speaking to women in Afghanistan and has received examples of "bad behaviour and violence against women".

One woman yesterday was "put on fire because she was accused of bad cooking for Taliban fighters" in the north of the country, she said.

The lawyer added: "They are forcing people to give them food and cook them food.

"Also there are so many young women are being in the past few weeks being shipped into neighbouring countries in coffins to be used as sex slaves.

"They also force families to marry their young daughters to Taliban fighters. I don't see where is the promise that they think women should be going to work, when we are seeing all of these atrocities."

She described life under the Taliban as a "nightmare", saying she was in a "powerful position" the day before it took power, then became "nothing in the society".

As a judge she had to be accompanied by her neighbour's four-year-old boy to the grocery shop, showing he had more value than her because she was a woman.
 
I was hearing about Brigadier General Khatool Mohammadzai on radio 4 this morning.

She's the highest ranking female officer in the Afghan army.

The coalition trained her, she fought next to our soldiers, worked her way up the ranks and as she did so, had her face plastered all over the international news back home to show everyone how justified the war was and what progress women were making.

Now she isn't eligible to be evacuated because she was in the Afghan army, not British or US.

We were more than happy to use her image as a PR tool to support the war, but now everyone in the world knows her name and face, she's on her own.
 
domalino said:
Theres so much bullshit in this post.

Yes. Everyone knew the Afghan government would lose quickly. Everyone knew that without US Air support they had no hope of winning, it was widely known (and reported) that there had been thousands of desertions since the Trump peace declaration and release of the 5000 Taliban prisoners back into Afghanistan. Biden says they were surprised how quickly, but they're talking about it taking days not weeks.

The deals, initially offered early last year, were often described by Afghan officials as cease-fires, but Taliban leaders were in fact offering money in exchange for government forces to hand over their weapons, according to an Afghan officer and a U.S. official.​
​
Over the next year and a half, the meetings advanced to the district level and then rapidly on to provincial capitals, culminating in a breathtaking series of negotiated surrenders by government forces, according to interviews with more than a dozen Afghan officers, police, special operations troops and other soldiers.​

The coalition military intelligence knew about these deals.

If the New York Times can know that, the foreign Secretary certainly knows it.

If there was a plan for evacuating our Afghan allies it could have been sped up. It could have been rolled out at short notice. There's been nothing, there still is nothing, and no one can get the foreign secretary on the phone to organise it.

As for the most dishonest "what were you doing" bullshit, its not my fucking job to overseas the British withdrawal from Afghanistan with 2 years notice. Plenty of people were telling them these things though, we have heard from dozens of NGO workers who have said they've been trying to organise the government for months with no help or progress.

It was Dominic Raabs job, and the thousands of people who work under him, and they have comprehensively failed that job and brought shame on this country, and shown the entire world that we cannot be trusted to stick by our allies and that will stick with us for decades.
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It also begs the question of were our actions intended?
 
domalino said:
I was hearing about Brigadier General Khatool Mohammadzai on radio 4 this morning.

She's the highest ranking female officer in the Afghan army.

The coalition trained her, she fought next to our soldiers, worked her way up the ranks and as she did so, had her face plastered all over the international news back home to show everyone how justified the war was and what progress women were making.

Now she isn't eligible to be evacuated because she was in the Afghan army, not British or US.

We were more than happy to use her image as a PR tool to support the war, but now everyone in the world knows her name and face, she's on her own.
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Makes you proud eh? If she can find £60 to donate to the Tories she will not only get out she will get a game of tennis with Johnson - priorities and all that
 
domalino said:
I was hearing about Brigadier General Khatool Mohammadzai on radio 4 this morning.

She's the highest ranking female officer in the Afghan army.

The coalition trained her, she fought next to our soldiers, worked her way up the ranks and as she did so, had her face plastered all over the international news back home to show everyone how justified the war was and what progress women were making.

Now she isn't eligible to be evacuated because she was in the Afghan army, not British or US.

We were more than happy to use her image as a PR tool to support the war, but now everyone in the world knows her name and face, she's on her own.
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that is disgusting , they will hunt her and kill her
 
SKY News reporter describing chaotic scenes outside the airport at Kabul

Next item Johnson interview

"I've just chaired COBRA ( wants a round of applause for doing his job ?) The situation on the ground appears to be stabilizing......" who the fuck does he think he is kidding?
 
bluethrunthru said:
SKY News reporter describing chaotic scenes outside the airport at Kabul

Next item Johnson interview

"I've just chaired COBRA ( wants a round of applause for doing his job ?) The situation on the ground appears to be stabilizing......" who the fuck does he think he is kidding?
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i am watching him fucking lying through his arse again
 
Lets be honest here, the only reason the Taliban have taken over again is because the Afghanistan armed forces are gutless cowards. These people all ran away in less than a week, rather than defend their own country against tyrany. They have put up zero defence against a bunch of religious zealots and terrorists. Its frankly embareasing that western powers have to step in and help every time. I have massive sympathy for those now living under this tyranny but they need to look at their own men and soldiers and ask why they are so gutless.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Lets be honest here, the only reason the Taliban have taken over again is because the Afghanistan armed forces are gutless cowards. These people all ran away in less than a week, rather than defend their own country against tyrany. They have put up zero defence against a bunch of religious zealots and terrorists. Its frankly embareasing that western powers have to step in and help every time. I have massive sympathy for those now living under this tyranny but they need to look at their own men and soldiers and ask why they are so gutless.
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May be Italian descendant’s
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Lets be honest here, the only reason the Taliban have taken over again is because the Afghanistan armed forces are gutless cowards. These people all ran away in less than a week, rather than defend their own country against tyrany. They have put up zero defence against a bunch of religious zealots and terrorists. Its frankly embareasing that western powers have to step in and help every time. I have massive sympathy for those now living under this tyranny but they need to look at their own men and soldiers and ask why they are so gutless.
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In no particular order. Poor and corrupt leadership. The Taliban striking deals with factions across the country during the ceasefire/peace deal. The US Govt sidelining the Afghan Govt during the peace negotions thereby sending out the message the Taliban were the only game in time. The peace deal for many was the ‘end’ and after that everyone was looking out for themselves. No affinity for the Govt they were ostensibly fighting for.

The Govt and military only looked good on paper, the surprise was they collapsed in days not weeks, but no one was surprised they collapsed.

Also, Afghan forces lost around 60k men in the conflict. I guess the rest looking at the shitshow around them decided they didn’t fancy being added to the list and for what? A president who legged it out of Afghanistan with a hundred million dollars.

It's not dissimilar to the South Vietnamese army that was ‘left’ to ‘defend’ the country. You can equip them all you like, but unless you have a sense of purpose, a belief in what you are fighting for, you are going to lose.
 
BobKowalski said:
In no particular order. Poor and corrupt leadership. The Taliban striking deals with factions across the country during the ceasefire/peace deal. The US Govt sidelining the Afghan Govt during the peace negotions thereby sending out the message the Taliban were the only game in time. The peace deal for many was the ‘end’ and after that everyone was looking out for themselves. No affinity for the Govt they were ostensibly fighting for.

The Govt and military only looked good on paper, the surprise was they collapsed in days not weeks, but no one was surprised they collapsed.

Also, Afghan forces lost around 60k men in the conflict. I guess the rest looking at the shitshow around them decided they didn’t fancy being added to the list and for what? A president who legged it out of Afghanistan with a hundred million dollars.

It's not dissimilar to the South Vietnamese army that was ‘left’ to ‘defend’ the country. You can equip them all you like, but unless you have a sense of purpose, a belief in what you are fighting for, you are going to lose.
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Thats the whole point - I hate WW2 comparisons because of different times - but post Dunkirk Britain had that belief and sense of purpose. Had Hitler followed the little ships across the channel yes we had abandoned a lot of equipment but even little old ladies would have chucked rocks at the SS and died for a cause they believed in. As ever the Yanks thought more and bigger guns was the answer - didn't seem to stop and ask the Afghans on the ground how they felt about them leaving - " Its ok - they have guns - lots of guns............"
 
bluethrunthru said:
but even little old ladies would have chucked rocks at the SS and died for a cause they believed in.
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No they wouldn't.

That didn't happen in France, or Belgium, or Holland and it didn't happen in the Channel Islands. Yes, there was resistance, but the mass of the population, in the face of overwhelming force did nothing, because there was nothing they could do.
 
Dunno how old you are Fumble but my Grandma's were both adults in the war. One lost her husband as a PoW for 6 years the other was in the Western Desert and Italy - both lost father in WW1 and both hated everything German - my Dad's mum never even distinguished between West and East Germany - they would have resisted.
There was also a secret resistance army ( see below ) and when I lived on the South Coast I recall seeing a documentary where they recruited folk like game keepers and land workers and the like. The minute the "balloon went up" they would walk out of their houses and go to the places in the link below regardless of the fate of their family - they had a couple on and because he had signed the OSA he had never told her the plan was to abandon her and the kids to resist and she dropped the bombshell that she had never told him for the same reason - she had been recruited as a radio operator so she would have been transmitting about enemy movements until she would have been found out and shot.
I think France Belgium and Holland fell too quickly plus there was a lack of leadership from their governments resulting in mass columns of refugee's and fear in the general populace. The fact we had the channel as a barrier meant the Govt could galvanise the public mood and there was a sense of purpose about what could be achieved.
I remember my Grandad telling me that as a Lancashire Fusilier and part of the BEF they marched all the way to the Albert Canal in Belgium which was seen as a barrier to thwart the Germans. Nobody thought to blow bridges and the Germans had boats so they got told to lob Bren Guns, Vickers guns and mortars in the canal and head for Dunkirk! Even then they knew the rate things were happening the channel was their barrier.
Different times different people.

historicengland.org.uk

If Germany Had Invaded England in the Second World War, Who Would Have Fought Back? | Historic England

Winston Churchill ordered preparations to be made for a secret resistance force to report on and agitate against any invasion force that might arrive.
historicengland.org.uk historicengland.org.uk

www.smithsonianmag.com

WWII Bunker Used by Churchill's 'Secret Army' Unearthed in Scotland

British Auxiliary Units were trained to sabotage the enemy in case of German invasion
www.smithsonianmag.com www.smithsonianmag.com
 
The perfect fumble said:
No they wouldn't.

That didn't happen in France, or Belgium, or Holland and it didn't happen in the Channel Islands. Yes, there was resistance, but the mass of the population, in the face of overwhelming force did nothing, because there was nothing they could do.
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Also if all our air support came from our allies and it had been pulled out from under us just before Dunkirk we'd all be speaking German right now, as the phrase goes.

I think the US ambassador to Afghanistan summed it up well, it was incredibly poor for Biden to say the Afghan army didn't want to fight when they've lost 70,000 soldiers and 50,000 civilians.

Some of these people were fighting the taliban when we were training and arming them. They saw the writing on the wall when Trump struck his deal and ultimately the peaceful takeover would have been the best realistic end to this if the coalition had held up their end and evacuated the people we needed to ahead of time.

Imagine seeing 70,000 of your fellow soldiers die fighting the Taliban and then your number 1 ally release 5,000 senior ranking enemy combatants those comrades died to capture.
 
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