Age Old Argument

bellbuzzer

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Ifwecouldjust....... said:
lloydie said:
bellbuzzer said:
there was no issue in the 60s because Trafford did not exist as a metro borough until 1974, so the rags have spent more time in manchester than in Trafford. Anyway as long as it winds them up .............

Factually wrong, Stretford, pre- 1974 was a county borough of Lancashire, and has never been in Manchester.
From memory they existed as Manchester United in Manchester from 1902 till 1910, a grand total of 8 years.




Goes back much further than the '80s tho. When the Swamp was originally planned and designed in 1910 , the RAGS wanted to call it The Manchester Stadium. This request was turned down by the council because
" Stretford was part of the ancient parish of Manchester in the county of Lancashire"
 

ccr

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Shuffs said:
When both St Marks and Newton Heath were formed neither were in Manchester.

Its a pointless argument altogether as they have had that name for years and its never going to change.
Agreed,, but City were formed in 1894. The rags claim 1878. Therefore City = Manchester.....Rags = Oldham.
Think the Europeans should look at it. Champagne should be made only in one region. Cornish pasties can only be called Cornish if from Cornwall.
and geordies should be made to speak English.
 

CitizenTID

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ccr said:
Shuffs said:
When both St Marks and Newton Heath were formed neither were in Manchester.

Its a pointless argument altogether as they have had that name for years and its never going to change.
Agreed,, but City were formed in 1894. The rags claim 1878. Therefore City = Manchester.....Rags = Oldham.
Think the Europeans should look at it. Champagne should be made only in one region. Cornish pasties can only be called Cornish if from Cornwall.
and geordies should be made to speak English.

Since when has Newton Heath ever been a part of Oldham??
 

pass2silva

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Lordeffingham said:
It really grates to regularly people raising very accurate and relevant issues with regard to a matter about which they are absolutely correct, but then through either their lack of understanding or intellect in putting forward their evidence, leave themselves open to ridicule and counter argument, often resulting in the appearance that their adversary has indeed beaten them and shown them to be wrong after all.

I'm actually referring to an issue very close to my heart, and one which some may well profess to be a petty matter, but is that age old argument as to whether or not the rags are a Manchester Club, and should really have any right to be called 'Manchester' United at all.

I'll start by stating what the case actually is, that they are not from Manchester at all, but do form a part of Greater Manchester, so also do: Rochdale, Bolton, Wigan, Bury, Oldham and many other Towns and Boroughs.

They also do not fall under any jurisdiction of Manchester City Council, but fall under the jurisdiction of Trafford Borough Council.

Now to the real point of this post, which is I'm absolutely sick to death of seeing the above very valid argument, which causes major grief to the Rags, being weakened and watered down, by the amount of ignorant comments made in all number of places on websites Blogs and journals around the Country, where people (very often City fans) and continue to go on about Manchester United being from Salford.

They are not from Manchester, they are not from Salford, THEY ARE FROM TRAFFORD, and the only thing that even connects them with Salford is their Border with it, and also the Catholic Church's Diocese which includes Trafford as a part of it's Salford Diocese.

It might sound a bit immaterial to be raising this, but it really hacks me off when the sound argument which winds up and riles so many Rags, is weakened and laughed off due to the lack of understanding of the very key points by those reiterating it.

Below can be found many other points which may well help people in understanding the actual facts regarding this matter:

Greater Manchester consists of;-

The City of Manchester
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester</a>
The City of Salford
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Sal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Sal</a>…
The Metropolitan Borough of Trafford
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafford" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafford</a>
Town of Bolton
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolton</a>
Town of Bury
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bury</a>
Town of Rochdale
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale</a>
Town of Oldham
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldham</a>
Metropolitan Borough of Tameside
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tameside" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tameside</a>
Metropolitan Borough of Stockport.
<a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolita" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolita</a>…

NOTE, Manchester is the ONLY one that is called Manchester, whilst the others refer only to the county of Greater Manchester.


Manchester United Football Ground is located in TRAFFORD.
United's jurisdiction is TRAFFORD BOROUGH COUNCIL.

Manchester City Football Ground is located in Manchester.
City's jurisdiction is MANCHESTER CITY COUNCIL.

Manchester United Football Club's address is, Old Trafford, Trafford, Greater Manchester.

Manchester City Football Club's address is, Manchester, Greater Manchester.

Manchester is the city in this case and Greater Manchester is the county.

In other words saying Manchester United are a Manchester Club is exactly the same as saying Bolton are a Manchester club, when clearly neither are.

Manchester is factually fairly small from a population perspective.

Manchester Airport IS in the city of Manchester, however Manchester is long and thin, so Manchester Airport is geographically in the region of tem miles from Manchester Town Hall, where Old Trafford Football Ground is maybe only 3 miles from it, but it doesn't alter the FACT that Manchester Airport is in Manchester and Old Trafford Football ground ISN'T.

So in summing up, as everyone should hopefully now be aware, the facts are there for everyone to see and in honesty it's not really rocket science:

Manchester United DON'T reside in the City of Manchester and haven't done or even been any part of for over 100 years, and just for additional clarification, from the Rags Club themselves, they actually hold their victory parades, or did do, at Trafford Town Hall, end of argument I hope!


Mate, you really need to get yourself a girlfriend!
 

.allan

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I don't even know why this would wind a rag up anyway. Its the most ridiculous argument, and is only used when we have nothing better to do than goad them.

They are in Manchester as much as we are regardless of addresses or what ever.
 

ctidcarl

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Carver said:
Oh and don't forget that they had to play a home game against Arsenal at Anfield and another one at the Victoria Ground Stoke in 1971 after they got banned from the swamp due to some dick heads throwing knives.

Is this true?? Did they really have to play "home" games elsewhere??

I know they borrowed our ground after theirs got bombed and also when they qualified for Europe and had no floodlights - because the thick twats forgot it got dark at night.

But I never knew they played a "home" game at Anfield of all places.

Rags
 

Bluearmy

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lloydie said:
bellbuzzer said:
hydemainecoms said:
When I was in school back in 1960's Manchester, there where equal number's of Blues and Reds in the same school. We used to team off against each other for City v Utd matches on the park.
I wasn't aware back then of any issue regarding boundaries and who was a 'Manchester' club
or not.
Fast forward to the 80's and 90's and I began to realise that there was an issue about who was the 'true' Manchester club.
Got to say in my opinion that this was genarated by us blues who had nothing else to attach ourselves to due to their success, and our oblivion at the time.
Maybe someone else has a different perspective on this? but it's how I remember it.

there was no issue in the 60s because Trafford did not exist as a metro borough until 1974, so the rags have spent more time in manchester than in Trafford. Anyway as long as it winds them up .............

Factually wrong, Stretford, pre- 1974 was a county borough of Lancashire, and has never been in Manchester.
From memory they existed as Manchester United in Manchester from 1902 till 1910, a grand total of 8 years.

Wasnt Newton Heath in the boundaries of Oldham then though?? Or was that my Blue uncle telling me a tale to wind the rags up with??<br /><br />-- Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:39 am --<br /><br />
black mamba said:
They'll only counter that their ground has a Manchester postcode .....

Tranmere has a Chester postcode.......... But it aint in Chester...
 

LoveCity

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My favourite map. :)

 

THFC6061

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Historically, London consisted of the City of London (the Roman "Square Mile") and the City of Westminster.

No football clubs were located in these areas.

As London expanded during the reign of Queen Victoria, huge chunks of the surrounding Home Counties, such as Middlesex, Hertfordshire, Essex, Surrey and Kent were incorporated into the Metropolitan area of London.

Here are where London clubs who have played in the Football League originated from...

Essex
West Ham United
Leyton Orient
Dagenham & Redbridge
Thames Association

Middlesex
Chelsea
Fulham
Tottenham Hotspur
Queens Park Rangers
Brentford

Hertfordshire
Watford
Barnet

Surrey
Crystal Palace
Millwall
Wimbledon
AFC Wimbledon

Kent
Arsenal
Charlton Athletic
 

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