Alexandole Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

[worsleyweb]

I don’t believe freedom of speech has been sureessed and I’d suggest the sections of society that do feel it has been suppressed take a wider look at what is going on

If they seriously think that Boris Johnson has their interests at heart, they need thier head testing

He might let you call a women in a burka a letterbox but he’ll takeaway your benefits, workers rights, impose a bedroom tax etc. Without a second thought

Him and the like will erode this country without the people realising. But as long as we can ban a burkha, everything will be alright

Good grief - people are now not voicing an opinion as they are frightened of being labelled snowflakes - ones of the best yet. What about just having an opinion that differs to yours?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I highly doubt that Johnson was motivated by altruism, but as an inveterate liberal I cannot feel anything but uneasy about the burka and the niqab. I interact professionally with a great deal of Muslim males and (consequently) their wives and there are plenty of those relationships where the woman is clearly the equal or dominant partner, within the context of an Islamic marriage. None of those women wear a burka or a niqab, and nor would I expect them to. It is therefore difficult for me to conceive that the male partner does not play a considerable role in the decision to wear these garments. In fact the suggestion they do not seems to offend logic. To what extent will vary from case to case, but I am uncomfortable with any force being brought to bear on a woman’s decision to wear an item of clothing that has the capacity to be so isolating and anti-social. I would also suggest that in many instances the wearing of these garments arises within relationships where a significant degree of coercive control (or worse) exists. These types of relationships are not restricted to the Islamic community, of course.

Covering up the face flies in the face of widely accepted modes of behaviour for social intercourse and on that basis I cannot view these clothes in positive terms. I realise that they are used as a vehicle by racists to create mischief, but I won’t allow that to overwhelm my sense of unease around this subject and the impact these clothes have on the wearers. I love strong, self-confident women who aren’t afraid to express themselves. I know plenty of Muslim women, who wear a headscarf who fall into that category, one of whom is a very close friend, so for me this isn’t about Muslim females, but a small, yet significant section of them, who cover up their faces.

Facial interaction, with all the nuances that the human face can convey, is a vital part of the communication process. They build up rapport, effectuate better understanding and enable one to evaluate other people. If those things are denied to me, I am unlikely to warm to someone. Humans are social creatures and an ability to look at someone’s face, however modestly they are dressed, is a vital part of our interaction with each other; anyone who doesn’t engage on that basis is disadvantaging themselves and alienating others and that is something I simply cannot welcome.

 

[hilts]

I highly doubt that Johnson was motivated by altruism, but as an inveterate liberal I cannot feel anything but uneasy about the burka and the niqab. I interact professionally with a great deal of Muslim males and (consequently) their wives and there are plenty of those relationships where the woman is clearly the equal or dominant partner, within the context of an Islamic marriage. None of those women wear a burka or a niqab, and nor would I expect them to. It is therefore difficult for me to conceive that the male partner does not play a considerable role in the decision to wear these garments. In fact the suggestion they do not seems to offend logic. To what extent will vary from case to case, but I am uncomfortable with any force being brought to bear on a woman’s decision to wear an item of clothing that has the capacity to be so isolating and anti-social. I would also suggest that in many instances the wearing of these garments arises within relationships where a significant degree of coercive control (or worse) exists. These types of relationships are not restricted to the Islamic community, of course.

Covering up the face flies in the face of widely accepted modes of behaviour for social intercourse and on that basis I cannot view these clothes in positive terms. I realise that they are used as a vehicle by racists to create mischief, but I won’t allow that to overwhelm my sense of unease around this subject and the impact these clothes have on the wearers. I love strong, self-confident women who aren’t afraid to express themselves. I know plenty of Muslim women, who wear a headscarf who fall into that category, one of whom is a very close friend, so for me this isn’t about Muslim females, but a small, yet significant section of them, who cover up their faces.

Facial interaction, with all the nuances that the human face can convey, is a vital part of the communication process. They build up rapport, effectuate better understanding and enable one to evaluate other people. If those things are denied to me, I am unlikely to warm to someone. Humans are social creatures and an ability to look at someone’s face, however modestly they are dressed, is a vital part of our interaction with each other; anyone who doesn’t engage on that basis is disadvantaging themselves and alienating others and that is something I simply cannot welcome.

Good post that fella and if Johnson had expressed similar worded sentiments I wouldn’t class him as a bit of a tit on this subject.

 

[Tanzeylee]

I highly doubt that Johnson was motivated by altruism, but as an inveterate liberal I cannot feel anything but uneasy about the burka and the niqab. I interact professionally with a great deal of Muslim males and (consequently) their wives and there are plenty of those relationships where the woman is clearly the equal or dominant partner, within the context of an Islamic marriage. None of those women wear a burka or a niqab, and nor would I expect them to. It is therefore difficult for me to conceive that the male partner does not play a considerable role in the decision to wear these garments. In fact the suggestion they do not seems to offend logic. To what extent will vary from case to case, but I am uncomfortable with any force being brought to bear on a woman’s decision to wear an item of clothing that has the capacity to be so isolating and anti-social. I would also suggest that in many instances the wearing of these garments arises within relationships where a significant degree of coercive control (or worse) exists. These types of relationships are not restricted to the Islamic community, of course.

Covering up the face flies in the face of widely accepted modes of behaviour for social intercourse and on that basis I cannot view these clothes in positive terms. I realise that they are used as a vehicle by racists to create mischief, but I won’t allow that to overwhelm my sense of unease around this subject and the impact these clothes have on the wearers. I love strong, self-confident women who aren’t afraid to express themselves. I know plenty of Muslim women, who wear a headscarf who fall into that category, one of whom is a very close friend, so for me this isn’t about Muslim females, but a small, yet significant section of them, who cover up their faces.

Facial interaction, with all the nuances that the human face can convey, is a vital part of the communication process. They build up rapport, effectuate better understanding and enable one to evaluate other people. If those things are denied to me, I am unlikely to warm to someone. Humans are social creatures and an ability to look at someone’s face, however modestly they are dressed, is a vital part of our interaction with each other; anyone who doesn’t engage on that basis is disadvantaging themselves and alienating others and that is something I simply cannot welcome.

A very eloquent way of putting it down in black and white what most people think.

 

[urban genie]

Hypothetical question.

UKIP saw it's first rise in polling last month.
The continuing call to remove the whip from Bozza and suspend him from the party
He quits the tories and joins UKIP
Farage from the sidelines pushes for a Kipper leadership election
Johnson puts hself forward and wins.
Nigel & Bannons pet project over here to replecate trump can properly start

Not very likely, but I cannot see him getting a look in with Conservative PLP now even if the members have apparently welcomed his comments.

 

[Ban-jani]

I highly doubt that Johnson was motivated by altruism, but as an inveterate liberal I cannot feel anything but uneasy about the burka and the niqab. I interact professionally with a great deal of Muslim males and (consequently) their wives and there are plenty of those relationships where the woman is clearly the equal or dominant partner, within the context of an Islamic marriage. None of those women wear a burka or a niqab, and nor would I expect them to. It is therefore difficult for me to conceive that the male partner does not play a considerable role in the decision to wear these garments. In fact the suggestion they do not seems to offend logic. To what extent will vary from case to case, but I am uncomfortable with any force being brought to bear on a woman’s decision to wear an item of clothing that has the capacity to be so isolating and anti-social. I would also suggest that in many instances the wearing of these garments arises within relationships where a significant degree of coercive control (or worse) exists. These types of relationships are not restricted to the Islamic community, of course.

Covering up the face flies in the face of widely accepted modes of behaviour for social intercourse and on that basis I cannot view these clothes in positive terms. I realise that they are used as a vehicle by racists to create mischief, but I won’t allow that to overwhelm my sense of unease around this subject and the impact these clothes have on the wearers. I love strong, self-confident women who aren’t afraid to express themselves. I know plenty of Muslim women, who wear a headscarf who fall into that category, one of whom is a very close friend, so for me this isn’t about Muslim females, but a small, yet significant section of them, who cover up their faces.

Facial interaction, with all the nuances that the human face can convey, is a vital part of the communication process. They build up rapport, effectuate better understanding and enable one to evaluate other people. If those things are denied to me, I am unlikely to warm to someone. Humans are social creatures and an ability to look at someone’s face, however modestly they are dressed, is a vital part of our interaction with each other; anyone who doesn’t engage on that basis is disadvantaging themselves and alienating others and that is something I simply cannot welcome.

***applaudes***

Excellent post.

 

[adrianr]

Hypothetical question.

UKIP saw it's first rise in polling last month.
The continuing call to remove the whip from Bozza and suspend him from the party
He quits the tories and joins UKIP
Farage from the sidelines pushes for a Kipper leadership election
Johnson puts hself forward and wins.
Nigel & Bannons pet project over here to replecate trump can properly start

Not very likely, but I cannot see him getting a look in with Conservative PLP now even if the members have apparently welcomed his comments.

An interesting thought, but I'd be amazed if Johnson had the stones to do something that radical.

 

[BobKowalski]

Hypothetical question.

UKIP saw it's first rise in polling last month.
The continuing call to remove the whip from Bozza and suspend him from the party
He quits the tories and joins UKIP
Farage from the sidelines pushes for a Kipper leadership election
Johnson puts hself forward and wins.
Nigel & Bannons pet project over here to replecate trump can properly start

Not very likely, but I cannot see him getting a look in with Conservative PLP now even if the members have apparently welcomed his comments.

Can’t see it myself. Best route to power is turning the Tories into an explicitly nationalist anti European party which will resonate with the members and with large swathes of the electorate in England (not so much in Wales and Scotland). UKIP will never attract enough votes to win power. Turning the Tories into UKIP can work. Johnson will also turn up the heat on identity politics and cultural divides with big cities vs towns and immigrant bashing. Some Tory MP’s will get the hell out but most would stay and flip to the new agenda.

Everyone seems to be expecting a leadership challenge in Autumn which is what Johnson is gearing up for. May having to write 3 page letters to members to sell her Chequers deal is when you know you’re in trouble. The EU isn’t going to rewrite its rules to help her or her proposal out either. As soon as May signs off on the Withdrawal Agreement with its backstop and vague declaration on a future relationship is when it’s likely to kick off.

No idea how it will all turn out but it’s going to be a grim process.

 

[urban genie]

Can’t see it myself. Best route to power is turning the Tories into an explicitly nationalist anti European party which will resonate with the members and with large swathes of the electorate in England (not so much in Wales and Scotland). UKIP will never attract enough votes to win power. Turning the Tories into UKIP can work. Johnson will also turn up the heat on identity politics and cultural divides with big cities vs towns and immigrant bashing. Some Tory MP’s will get the hell out but most would stay and flip to the new agenda.

Everyone seems to be expecting a leadership challenge in Autumn which is what Johnson is gearing up for. May having to write 3 page letters to members to sell her Chequers deal is when you know you’re in trouble. The EU isn’t going to rewrite its rules to help her or her proposal out either. As soon as May signs off on the Withdrawal Agreement with its backstop and vague declaration on a future relationship is when it’s likely to kick off.

No idea how it will all turn out but it’s going to be a grim process.

Like I said hypothetical amd highly unlikely and only because there seems to be some coming together of certain parties in meeting with bannon, farage being one and Johnson being another.

Honestly think Johnson has lost his chance with the tories leadership wise because of their leadership voting system, unless there some some massive crisis in government that leads to no option to ask him back.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I interact professionally with a great deal of Muslim males...

In other words, you visit a lot of kebab shops.

Seriously it’s a good point you made. We can say that we, as a society, don’t have the right to tell people what to wear but we are implicitly allowing individuals the right to tell people what to wear (assuming women are being forced to wear burqas). Someone mentioned that there was a bank robbery where someone wore a burqa or niqab, as justification for banning it. But there have been loads of robberies involving mopeds. Should we ban those as well? Or kitchen knives because those have been used to kill people?

There is a serious debate to be had about this issue but Boris Johnson isn’t the one to be starting it. His remarks just encourage the racists to come out of the woodwork, in the same way that Corbyn’s trenchant views on Israel implicitly encourage antisemites on the left to do the same.