Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

But you're acting like this has happened in a vacuum between two people we know nothing about. This man is a member of an explicitly racist government that has gone out of its way to court white nationalists, has banned people purely because of their country of origin, and has rounded up the children of immigrants and separated them from their parents. I don't think it's a massive stretch to suggest that someone who has supported such a government may have a problem with a young, Latino woman who is arguably more influential than he is in Congress. I actually don't think there's enough evidence to label this as racially motivated, but I also don't think it's completely beyond speculation, like you seem to.

And just for the record, the fact that he called her a 'bitch' isn't evidence that he's misogynistic. It's not reached the level of the N-word where by using it you're basically admitting to being a racist. Nor is anyone who calls a woman a name a misogynist. But if you verbally abuse someone because they're a woman, then I'd say you are. But it's actually more subtle than that. What you often see is people (on all sides) reacting to a woman they disagree with differently to a man they disagree with. Let's imagine exactly the same situation, but instead of AOC, he bumped into Bernie Sanders (who if it's just about opinions, is almost identical). Do we think Yoho would have even aggressively confronted him in the first place? I'm very doubtful that he would. It isn't a left/right thing. Women of all political persuasions are frequently subjected to very gendered abuse. And therefore I think AOC's response calling this out as a gendered attack is legitimate.

Its rife - you only have to look at the Billy Big Bollocks on here calling Nicola Sturgeon " wee Willie Krankie" and the like - she gets way more abuse on line than a male counterpart and none of them would have the balls to say anything to her face.

Then there is this weapons grade level of attack which is indefensible

https://graziadaily.co.uk/life/real...es-half-online-abuse-sent-female-politicians/
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-04...ed-at-mps-in-exposure-brexit-online-uncovered
 
I don’t know if he’s been misogynistic elsewhere and has a history of it but what I do know is calling someone a “fucking bitch” is out of order but isn’t sexist.

Just as Corbyn calling May a “stupid woman” wasn’t sexist either, for a comparison, although that’s debatably closer to being sexist.

Even your example references sex in the insult, so is demonstrably sexist!! You can't argue facts when you've quoted them! If he'd have said "stupid wanker/ arsehole" then there wouldn't been cause to call it 'sexist'.
 
Words take on new meanings and are used for different circumstances, in different times.

No one cares about illegitimate boys now, it’s used for several things now.

You can be a bastard meaning a horrible man, you could be a mad bastard which can be used as a positive in some circumstances and there’s more.

A poster two pages ago said bitch used to refer to someone trying to overthrow the patriarchy, now it just means a woman who’s acting like an arsehole.

So my point is these are two commonly used insults that have several meanings and context is important.

I don’t swear at women but if I saw a woman doing something deeply immoral and I lost my temper, I’d likely go to calling her a bitch, it’s the most common insult to women.

Just like calling a man a dick or a bastard, I’d probably call a man a dick first of all, who deserved it.

I barely know anything of Yoho but I’m just saying the single act of saying “fucking bitch” isn’t misogynistic, I reckon every bloke on this forum has at least thought it about someone 100s of times.

Last offering on this.

An insult is only an insult if the receiving person sees it as so. A woman can use a similar slur with each other and it's fine. Two men can call it each other and it can be fine. A man can call it to a familiar woman and it's fine. A man call call it an unfamiliar woman who has a similar ethic and it goes unpunished.

But, for a man to call it a woman who doesn't see him as familiar/ similar in any way shape or form, she can deem that an insult.

A kind of similar explanation in the first verse...
 
Last offering on this.

An insult is only an insult if the receiving person sees it as so. A woman can use a similar slur with each other and it's fine. Two men can call it each other and it can be fine. A man can call it to a familiar woman and it's fine. A man call call it an unfamiliar woman who has a similar ethic and it goes unpunished.

But, for a man to call it a woman who doesn't see him as familiar/ similar in any way shape or form, she can deem that an insult.

A kind of similar explanation in the first verse...

It’s definitely an insult.
 
Even your example references sex in the insult, so is demonstrably sexist!! You can't argue facts when you've quoted them! If he'd have said "stupid wanker/ arsehole" then there wouldn't been cause to call it 'sexist'.
People say stupid man or stupid woman all the time.

We’re entering a weird place here where any causal insult, as inappropriate it is given the environment, is now going to be discriminatory.

If she called him a stupid man, it would have been absolutely fine.

What do you want gender neutral terms like person?
 
I was just reading this through, but I have address this here.

You seem not to understand the simple point raised by AOC. The fact that this Yoho fella's actions opens the door that people wait for; to have the excuse to openly abused whomever they want as it was okay for 'xyz' to do so. They don't need the excuse, but they'll use it anyway.

So, now if Mr Yoho's daughters or his wife get called 'fucking bitches' out of the blue as per his usage, what can he say...? Would that prompted/ inspired usage be misogynistic or not?
I’m not for a second defending his behaviour.

It’s a disgrace he’s said that to a colleague and I’d be in a disciplinary proceeding for swearing at someone.

It’s not sexist or racist though.
 
Even your example references sex in the insult, so is demonstrably sexist!! You can't argue facts when you've quoted them! If he'd have said "stupid wanker/ arsehole" then there wouldn't been cause to call it 'sexist'.

it's not though. If she's a woman, and she's stupid, she's a stupid woman. It's nothing more than factual.
 
Last offering on this.

An insult is only an insult if the receiving person sees it as so. A woman can use a similar slur with each other and it's fine. Two men can call it each other and it can be fine. A man can call it to a familiar woman and it's fine. A man call call it an unfamiliar woman who has a similar ethic and it goes unpunished.

But, for a man to call it a woman who doesn't see him as familiar/ similar in any way shape or form, she can deem that an insult.

A kind of similar explanation in the first verse...


an insult is an insult when somebody is offended and consensus agrees with it being offensive, otherwise, as has through time quite fairly been the case, the lone individual is told to grow a pair and stop being morally outraged all the time.
 
People say stupid man or stupid woman all the time.

We’re entering a weird place here where any causal insult, as inappropriate it is given the environment, is now going to be discriminatory.

If she called him a stupid man, it would have been absolutely fine.

What do you want gender neutral terms like person?

Whether you like it or not, if the opposite sex places a gender within an insult, it becomes 'sexist' which is the very definition of the word.

Whether the receiving person regards it as 'sexist' id down to the individual.

Not sure how much clearer that definition can be?

"Facts don't care about your feelings", I believe the saying goes.
 
I’m not for a second defending his behaviour.

It’s a disgrace he’s said that to a colleague and I’d be in a disciplinary proceeding for swearing at someone.

It’s not sexist or racist though.

Since I've already laid out the 'sexist' angle, I will agree that if AOC has not deferred this insult as 'racist' in her riposte, I'm good with that.
 
an insult is an insult when somebody is offended and consensus agrees with it being offensive, otherwise, as has through time quite fairly been the case, the lone individual is told to grow a pair and stop being morally outraged all the time.

So, if an individual is insulted in a closed room where no one can hear, it's not 'offensive'??

A bit like "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

Your example, based upon the above, is nonsense.
 
Whether you like it or not, if the opposite sex places a gender within an insult, it becomes 'sexist' which is the very definition of the word.

Whether the receiving person regards it as 'sexist' id down to the individual.

Not sure how much clearer that definition can be?

"Facts don't care about your feelings", I believe the saying goes.
I disagree, I think context is the most important thing but I’m not sure we should continue this English language debate.

I think we both agree abusing someone isn’t warranted, especially in a professional setting.
 
Since I've already laid out the 'sexist' angle, I will agree that if AOC has not deferred this insult as 'racist' in her riposte, I'm good with that.

There’s at least a shred of an argument for it being sexist, there’s no grounds for claiming racism with that abuse at this point.

If I called you a “fucking dick head”, which is a similar level of insult aimed at men, there’s no way you could claim I was being racist by that alone.

He’s obviously a wanker, men who swear at women like that always are, it shows a lack of class.
 
By the way do people not call men bitches in America? You seem to think that’s bollocks?
Very infrequently, and with zero equivalence to its frequency of use towards women.

Even when used against men, no matter how rarely, it is still a derogatory slam on women!
 
My understanding is Bitch and **** are still regarded worldwide as the most degrading insults to women.

Personally I would never call a women either.

And yes bitch like bastard has been changed with context of a conversation to be a different word or meaning, but as a direct insult to a women it is a no no for me
 
Last edited:

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top