Anders Breivik

[gaudinho's stolen car]

For my 2 penneth's worth, the man is obviously insane. Maybe outwardly looking ala sociopathic, but not in the sociopath sense of mentally responsible

Seeing as there is no such thing as evil (as that's a word from one of those silly religious books) he must surely be insane.

That means he cannot be tried in a criminal court then. After psychological examination he would be sectioned, and as soon as he was deemed "well" and fit to rejoin society, he would be freed.

In fairness,it's probably pretty doubtful that shrinks would ever deem him fit for release,even if he was found to be not mentally culpable and a 'diminished responsibility' verdict of insanity reached.
Many psychopaths or sociopaths of this type in Britain are detained on an indeterminate sentence order,contingent to just what,if any,progress they make within Rampton,Ashworth or Broadmoor,but are highly unlikely to see freedom again,given the colossal public safety risks,so in some ways it is of little consequence whether he is viewed as mentally ill or not,other than the nature of the treatment he will receive in either a maximum security prison or a secure psychiatric unit.

Yeah, you are both right I didn't really mean to go down that route. My main beef is the fact that if he is deemed insane then his motives will not be drawn into question. His motives are clear, racial hatred, that isn't madness it's terrorism.

 

[Aphex]

That means he cannot be tried in a criminal court then. After psychological examination he would be sectioned, and as soon as he was deemed "well" and fit to rejoin society, he would be freed.

I know what you are saying

Think the Yorkshire Ripper. He is in Broadmoor and will never be released, the same that will more than likely happen to to Breivik.

Truth be known you are right, he would never get out. However, if you call him mad it's an excuse to sweep the serious racial hatred problem in Norway and the rest of Europe under the carpet. The actions of a madman are irrational, but Breivik's killing spree was thought out meticulously, and his targets were chosen. It sounds exactly like religious fundamental terrorism to me.

Will Norway want to admit they have a problem with fundamental terrorism, or will they like you say, brush it under the carpet whilst abstaining themselves as a nation of all responsibility?

If this gets political, i'd expect that to become an option

The man is a terrorist, but whether he will be classed as a sane one will depend on this.

 

[gaudinho's stolen car]

I know what you are saying

Think the Yorkshire Ripper. He is in Broadmoor and will never be released, the same that will more than likely happen to to Breivik.

Truth be known you are right, he would never get out. However, if you call him mad it's an excuse to sweep the serious racial hatred problem in Norway and the rest of Europe under the carpet. The actions of a madman are irrational, but Breivik's killing spree was thought out meticulously, and his targets were chosen. It sounds exactly like religious fundamental terrorism to me.

Will Norway want to admit they have a problem with fundamental terrorism, or will they like you say, brush it under the carpet whilst abstaining themselves as a nation of all responsibility?

If this gets political, i'd expect that to become an option

The man is a terrorist, but whether he will be classed as a sane one will depend on this.

That's exactly what they are trying to do. The court appointed psychiatrists have deemed him insane (phew, no problem) but the independent psychiatrists have deemed him sane (uh oh, we've got to deal with this).

 

[Aphex]

Truth be known you are right, he would never get out. However, if you call him mad it's an excuse to sweep the serious racial hatred problem in Norway and the rest of Europe under the carpet. The actions of a madman are irrational, but Breivik's killing spree was thought out meticulously, and his targets were chosen. It sounds exactly like religious fundamental terrorism to me.

Will Norway want to admit they have a problem with fundamental terrorism, or will they like you say, brush it under the carpet whilst abstaining themselves as a nation of all responsibility?

If this gets political, i'd expect that to become an option

The man is a terrorist, but whether he will be classed as a sane one will depend on this.

That's exactly what they are trying to do. The court appointed psychiatrists have deemed him insane (phew, no problem) but the independent psychiatrists have deemed him sane (uh oh, we've got to deal with this).

I guess it will come down to a political agenda then

i'm going for insane - protection of their realm.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

That means he cannot be tried in a criminal court then. After psychological examination he would be sectioned, and as soon as he was deemed "well" and fit to rejoin society, he would be freed.

In fairness,it's probably pretty doubtful that shrinks would ever deem him fit for release,even if he was found to be not mentally culpable and a 'diminished responsibility' verdict of insanity reached.
Many psychopaths or sociopaths of this type in Britain are detained on an indeterminate sentence order,contingent to just what,if any,progress they make within Rampton,Ashworth or Broadmoor,but are highly unlikely to see freedom again,given the colossal public safety risks,so in some ways it is of little consequence whether he is viewed as mentally ill or not,other than the nature of the treatment he will receive in either a maximum security prison or a secure psychiatric unit.

Yeah, you are both right I didn't really mean to go down that route. My main beef is the fact that if he is deemed insane then his motives will not be drawn into question. His motives are clear, racial hatred, that isn't madness it's terrorism.

Difficult as it is for us to judge without being privy to the verdicts of his numerous psychiatric evaluations,I would tend to agree that he is sane.
It is possible for a sane man to commit acts we would view as insane,simply because he has convinced himself that he is acting for the common good,so therefore to him his acts are rational and justified,even necessary.
To Breivik,there was simply no other possible course of action other than killing 77 white Norwegians because of his hatred of Islam.
That's how distorted his logic had become.
But a warped sense of values and basic morality does not automatically render him insane.

 

[Mclovin]

In fairness,it's probably pretty doubtful that shrinks would ever deem him fit for release,even if he was found to be not mentally culpable and a 'diminished responsibility' verdict of insanity reached.
Many psychopaths or sociopaths of this type in Britain are detained on an indeterminate sentence order,contingent to just what,if any,progress they make within Rampton,Ashworth or Broadmoor,but are highly unlikely to see freedom again,given the colossal public safety risks,so in some ways it is of little consequence whether he is viewed as mentally ill or not,other than the nature of the treatment he will receive in either a maximum security prison or a secure psychiatric unit.

Yeah, you are both right I didn't really mean to go down that route. My main beef is the fact that if he is deemed insane then his motives will not be drawn into question. His motives are clear, racial hatred, that isn't madness it's terrorism.

Difficult as it is for us to judge without being privy to the verdicts of his numerous psychiatric evaluations,I would tend to agree that he is sane.
It is possible for a sane man to commit acts we would view as insane,simply because he has convinced himself that he is acting for the common good,so therefore to him his acts are rational and justified,even necessary.
To Breivik,there was simply no other possible course of action other than killing 77 white Norwegians because of his hatred of Islam.
That's how distorted his logic had become.
But a warped sense of values and basic morality does not automatically render him insane.

Okay enough yapping, how old are you?

 

[Helmet Cole]

Your all jumping the gun a bit here IMHO - innocent until proven guilty and all that.

 

[Aphex]

Your all jumping the gun a bit here IMHO - innocent until proven guilty and all that.

LOL

 

[happychappy]

I agree, no media attension should be given to him.

As someone who has always been against the death penalty ... i do find it hard to justify why we should keep a guy who feels no remorse for killing 77 kids alive

But if you justify it for 77 deaths, where do you draw the line. Do you say anything over 5 murders, anything over 10? It tough but you can't justify the death penalty no matter the crime.

I'm sure the victims parents if given the chance to get to him could

 

[Plaything of the gods]

There are a couple of misrepresentations being spread in this thread.

His killing was not racially motivated, it was religiously motivated (anti-Islam).

His victims were not all white, there was at least one black person amongst them (Lefties).

[As for 'debating' with Mclovin (from this morning), I've just come across him/her/it and my hand is hovering over the Ignore button...]

 

[Plaything of the gods]

I agree, no media attension should be given to him.

As someone who has always been against the death penalty ... i do find it hard to justify why we should keep a guy who feels no remorse for killing 77 kids alive

But if you justify it for 77 deaths, where do you draw the line. Do you say anything over 5 murders, anything over 10? It tough but you can't justify the death penalty no matter the crime.

I'm sure the victims parents if given the chance to get to him could

Well people are different of course but the reactions of those directly affected are often milder and more forgiving than those of the outraged bystanders who, frankly, have no direct interest in the 'crime'. Witness the forgiving response of some of the victims and families of the murdered from 9/11 and 7/7, even some Americans! The Norwegians seem a pretty level headed people - amazing considering what the Norse used to get up to.

 

[Rascal]

Im pretty sure he is sane and has acted as others have beofre and others will do in the future for political ends. I think he probably sees himself as a matyr for his cause. It has just been on the news that he asked to be acquitted as he is a Norwegian fighting for his countries freedom and the killings were because the youths were supporters of multi-culturism.


If he is convicted of the charges brought against him he can be sentenced to a maximum 21 years under Norwegian law.

 

[gaudinho's stolen car]

Im pretty sure he is sane and has acted as others have beofre and others will do in the future for political ends. I think he probably sees himself as a matyr for his cause. It has just been on the news that he asked to be acquitted as he is a Norwegian fighting for his countries freedom and the killings were because the youths were supporters of multi-culturism.


If he is convicted of the charges brought against him he can be sentenced to a maximum 21 years under Norwegian law.

Yes but then the case is reviewed and he stays where he is. We had this scare mongering when it first happened.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Im pretty sure he is sane and has acted as others have beofre and others will do in the future for political ends. I think he probably sees himself as a matyr for his cause. It has just been on the news that he asked to be acquitted as he is a Norwegian fighting for his countries freedom and the killings were because the youths were supporters of multi-culturism.


If he is convicted of the charges brought against him he can be sentenced to a maximum 21 years under Norwegian law.

Yes but then the case is reviewed and he stays where he is. We had this scare mongering when it first happened.

Norway have similar laws to Britain regarding indeterminate sentencing.
He would have to be assessed as sane and that he was no longer a serious threat to society to be released.
I doubt these criteria will ever be met by Breivik.
Or a few on here,come to think of it.

 

[Rascal]

Im pretty sure he is sane and has acted as others have beofre and others will do in the future for political ends. I think he probably sees himself as a matyr for his cause. It has just been on the news that he asked to be acquitted as he is a Norwegian fighting for his countries freedom and the killings were because the youths were supporters of multi-culturism.


If he is convicted of the charges brought against him he can be sentenced to a maximum 21 years under Norwegian law.

Yes but then the case is reviewed and he stays where he is. We had this scare mongering when it first happened.

Norway have similar laws to Britain regarding indeterminate sentencing.
He would have to be assessed as sane and that he was no longer a serious threat to society to be released.
I doubt these criteria will ever be met by Breivik.
Or a few on here,come to think of it.

Yeah i agree with you both, i was just stating the 21 years as it stands. I doubt he would ever be released as NF says.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Yes but then the case is reviewed and he stays where he is. We had this scare mongering when it first happened.

Norway have similar laws to Britain regarding indeterminate sentencing.
He would have to be assessed as sane and that he was no longer a serious threat to society to be released.
I doubt these criteria will ever be met by Breivik.
Or a few on here,come to think of it.

Yeah i agree with you both, i was just stating the 21 years as it stands. I doubt he would ever be released as NF says.

He's never coming out.

 

[Skashion]

The good thing is by the time the 21 years has come around, the Muslims will be in charge and will have him stoned to death. ;-)

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

The good thing is by the time the 21 years has come around, the Muslims will be in charge and will have him stoned to death. ;-)

At least he'll have the satisfaction of saying "I told you so".

 

[Vinjay]

Regarding death penalty debate it would have been no deterrent in this case. As previously mentioned there is no such policy in Norway and infact they had a minimum jail term before this happened.

Also he expected to be killed anyway before surrendering so how do you punish a guy like this? Probably thinks he will eventually be broken out and installed as head of the Norwegian Army. Infact he has already "demanded" that position.

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The guy is a total nutter. It could be considered a cliche to say that a person's eyes can reflect their personality...but Breivik's eyes are just black pits, no show of feeling whatsoever. Hes a complete psycho.