Angelino

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I have to say that, although I think Angelino is a really really talented footballer, so far imo he is showing absolutely nothing at NYC, which suggests he can play left back for City anytime soon. He has played against nothing most of the time, but as soon as there is a threat from wide, he has problems.

Of course it's early days, but all his talent so far is on the ball & he comes alive when going forward. But John OShea at fullback would be a huge improvement on his current defending. Cetainly Shay Facey is miles ahead of him in that respect. He is absolutely nowhere near it, I'm sorry to say. Sure, if he's in a tight corner, with a player trying to get past him, he's very tenacious indeed & difficult to beat, but when a player is running down the wing, he can just cross the ball past Angelino, as if he's not there. Even Sweep last night, at walking pace, was able to curl a pass round Angelino, who just stuck out a leg similar to some of the awful efforts we have seen by Clichy etc pre season. Add to that, he is absolutely terrible, bordering on useless, in the air (although he has definitely improved slightly since going there so who knows ?)

I'm not saying we can never get a fullback out of him, all this may change in a month, but right now, as a defender, he couldn't even get near to Kolarov or Clichy.

Which brings me to comments I have made in the past regarding this possibility. I really don't think we should put all our eggs in one basket regarding him being a fullback. He is a footballer & you can see the difference when he is involved on the ball. He is a real threat, he finds space & imo is the best attacking option NYC have got, but unfortunately, as he is a fullback, he runs from deep & is an option rather than 'the' option.

I really think we have a player here who can do a lot more than we are seeing. He 'could' be a fullback, but he 'is' a fucking exciting footballer & that, imo, is how we should consider him.

I would like to see him tried in the position Delph played (for 15 mins!) v Real Madrid. Kind of left side of a midfield 3, or of course as a wingback, rather than a fullback. He is way better than Kolarov already, with the ball , imo, but even worse without it.
 
I can't really disagree with that sadly. He looks miles off defensively - so does more or less anyone i've seen in that league. Not really impressed by Facey as far as CBs go personally. Going forward last night Angelino looked great, as ever, but he was just beaten terribly easy. He may as well not have been there when their RW was crossing it. Counted about 4 free crosses put in on his side with piss poor attempts to stop them.

I'm not sure the MLS is going to teach him the art of defending particularly well, as no one in that league can seemingly do it and its such a free for all that it doesn't really seem to matter either. He's an excellent footballer, clearly. No question about that. I really, really rate his ability as a player, just think he's got a long way to go to replace Kolarov or Clichy IF his time in the MLS is anything to go by. Another loan in a league a lot more 'professional' in terms of tactical awareness and discipline is most likely required.
 
The kid is 18 and has an incredible brain. Defending fast wide players in the modern game is tough. If Patty V says he is one of the best youth players he has ever coached, that's good enough for me. No he isn't ready for our team (but how many in the world are with the high line we play plus what we ask our outside backs to do going forward). I think he is going to be class, but a lot of players just aren't ready at 18, (look at Bale starting in the same position and didn't really peak until he was 23). But his composure on the ball is only matched by Pirlo/Lampard on that team. Give him time.
 
unlikelyfan19 said:
The kid is 18 and has an incredible brain. Defending fast wide players in the modern game is tough. If Patty V says he is one of the best youth players he has ever coached, that's good enough for me. No he isn't ready for our team (but how many in the world are with the high line we play plus what we ask our outside backs to do going forward). I think he is going to be class, but a lot of players just aren't ready at 18, (look at Bale starting in the same position and didn't really peak until he was 23). But his composure on the ball is only matched by Pirlo/Lampard on that team. Give him time.
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Trust me mate, none of us are doubting his ability or potential. Just being realistic. I genuinely think he's a fantastic little player, but he's honestly got a long way to go as it stands.
 
Neville Kneville said:
I have to say that, although I think Angelino is a really really talented footballer, so far imo he is showing absolutely nothing at NYC, which suggests he can play left back for City anytime soon. He has played against nothing most of the time, but as soon as there is a threat from wide, he has problems.

Of course it's early days, but all his talent so far is on the ball & he comes alive when going forward. But John OShea at fullback would be a huge improvement on his current defending. Cetainly Shay Facey is miles ahead of him in that respect. He is absolutely nowhere near it, I'm sorry to say. Sure, if he's in a tight corner, with a player trying to get past him, he's very tenacious indeed & difficult to beat, but when a player is running down the wing, he can just cross the ball past Angelino, as if he's not there. Even Sweep last night, at walking pace, was able to curl a pass round Angelino, who just stuck out a leg similar to some of the awful efforts we have seen by Clichy etc pre season. Add to that, he is absolutely terrible, bordering on useless, in the air (although he has definitely improved slightly since going there so who knows ?)

I'm not saying we can never get a fullback out of him, all this may change in a month, but right now, as a defender, he couldn't even get near to Kolarov or Clichy.

Which brings me to comments I have made in the past regarding this possibility. I really don't think we should put all our eggs in one basket regarding him being a fullback. He is a footballer & you can see the difference when he is involved on the ball. He is a real threat, he finds space & imo is the best attacking option NYC have got, but unfortunately, as he is a fullback, he runs from deep & is an option rather than 'the' option.

I really think we have a player here who can do a lot more than we are seeing. He 'could' be a fullback, but he 'is' a fucking exciting footballer & that, imo, is how we should consider him.

I would like to see him tried in the position Delph played (for 15 mins!) v Real Madrid. Kind of left side of a midfield 3, or of course as a wingback, rather than a fullback. He is way better than Kolarov already, with the ball , imo, but even worse without it.
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Absolutely agree with this, word for word. For BWP's goal, he could see right across the line and saw him unmarked, but rather than tuck in opted to stand and watch him received the cross unchallenged. NYCFC should deploy him on the left of their Diamond; Pirlo and Lampard need the legs next to them, and his only worthwhile contribution is in an advanced position for them.

Pablo Maffeo is a defender who can attack, Angelino is an attacker who seemingly begrudgingly defends. That's why I think Maffeo will make a big impact here within a few seasons, and I don't think Angelino will, at least not in that role. Agree though, technically he's immense and can make the grade further forward.

I think it's an issue that needs to be looked at with our academy; it's producing great ball-playing defenders, but can it produce great defenders?

Against Leicester in the Youth Cup Semi, Ben Chilwell was immense for them, and looked like a proper leftback in comparison to Angelino; I said as much at the time and got some abuse. As our search for the real deal at leftback continues, we should snap him up before he has his break through and his value rockets. Arsenal are allegedly keeping a very close eye on him, so we should move quickly.
 
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.A. said:
Absolutely agree with this, word for word. For BWP's goal, he could see right across the line and saw him unmarked, but rather than tuck in opted to stand and watch him received the cross unchallenged.

Pablo Maffeo is a defender who can attack, Angelino is an attacker who seemingly begrudgingly defends. That's why I think Maffeo will make a big impact here within a few seasons, and I don't think Angelino will, at least not in that role. Agree though, technically he's immense and can make the grade further forward.

I think it's an issue that needs to be looked at with our academy; it's producing great ball-playing defenders, but can it produce great defenders? Pp

Against Leicester in the Youth Cup Semi, Ben Chilwell was immense for them, and looked like a proper leftback in comparison to Angelino; I said as much at the time and got some abuse. As our search for the real deal at leftback continues, we should snap him up before he has his break through and his value rockets. Arsenal are allegedly keeping a very close eye on him, so we should move quickly.
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We have some great young defenders. Angelino was definitely not 2nd best to him at that level at all imo. But Angelino is one of our least effective defenders, just a great footballer. Denayer, Humphreys, Maffeo, Tosin, & some of the next batch are miles better than almost anybody I've seen of similar age playing against us & like in the first team, have a much harder job in our system.
 
unlikelyfan19 said:
The kid is 18 and has an incredible brain. Defending fast wide players in the modern game is tough. If Patty V says he is one of the best youth players he has ever coached, that's good enough for me. No he isn't ready for our team (but how many in the world are with the high line we play plus what we ask our outside backs to do going forward). I think he is going to be class, but a lot of players just aren't ready at 18, (look at Bale starting in the same position and didn't really peak until he was 23). But his composure on the ball is only matched by Pirlo/Lampard on that team. Give him time.
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Bale was dogshit at fullback.& became a top player when moved. You are just proving my point.
 
In England it's essential that we produce Terry/Lescott/Vidic types; competent on the ball with the capacity to do the unglamorous stuff very well. The Carvalho-Terry, Ferdinand-Vidic, Kompany-Lescott partnerships all worked because of the diversity of the players' respective skillets.
 
He's going to be a great attacking fullback but his defense needs work. I'd personally like to see us sign someone like Kurzawa or Sandro and offload Kolarov, loan Angelino somewhere next season and then the following season offload Clichy and promote Angelino.

He'd be 20/21 by that time and could learn from Kurzawa/Sandro for a year or two before he officially becomes first choice.
 
unlikelyfan19 said:
The point is, he could become a great fullback. Just because they moved Bale doesn't mean Bale wouldn't have ever become a good fullback?
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Bale was awful. But just because Angelino's a talented player who plays at fullback now, doesn't mean he can do it as a fullback in the future either. If Bale had played his career at fullback he'd be Glen Johnson now.

I haven't written off Angelino as a fullback but there are plenty on here, most of whom probably aren't interested in this thread, who will be recommending him coming back at Christmas & replacing Clichy or Kolarov. Right now, he looks nowhere near that & is showing little sign of improvement in that area. BUT he was miles off it in his his early period in the EDS & ended up perfectly ok as a defender, so it's not impossible he'll rise to it.

What I want, is for us to make sure we give him every opportunity to make it at City as a player. If that means moving his position in the not to distant future, we should get it done.

The same applies to Denayer imo if he was to struggle at cb at first team level. These lads are quality. Make City players out of them, whatever the position.
 
Don't think this kid is a defender. In a lower league like the MLS it is so easy to go around him.

I would like to see him played as a winger.

Really Like the kid, but nothing I have seen tells me he's a defender.
 
I must admit he's looked really poor defensively so far. I'm not enjoying him playing over there as much as I thought I would. NYCFC are truly awful at the side of things and I honestly reckon the EDS are better organised. He could really do with playing alongside quality defenders - well at least decent ones, so he picks up some good habits. Top defenders organise defences well and you learn by being involved with them. Not sure he's learning anything other confusion at the moment. Starting to think he's going backwards on that front compared to when he was defending with Tosin/Humphreys/Maffeo who are all at least intelligent and worked as a unit.

There's no questioning his forward qualities, but even then I'm not sure they're being harnessed well by his relatively unintelligent teammates. There's only about 3 or 4 decent players in that team. I think he needs to be somewhere else.
 
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