Another gun massacre in the States (merged)

[mcmanus]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

Sociopath, liberal, nutjob, religious, psychopath, homeopath, right-wing fuckers, pet lovers, postmen, commies, ..... and on and on.... in a country with a 1/4 billion people and a similar amount of firearms there's bound to be a fucking nutter who can get himself a gun.

We will never have such idiotic relaxed bullshit laws in this country I hope. Well hopefully 'not in my lifetime'.

 

[1961_vintage]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

I cant understand why these right wing loonies dont understand that no guns means no shootings, it`s not rocket science

If in the unlikely event the USA was completely gun-free, this still leaves the deranged individual driven by the need to destroy. So in a gun-free world off he or she goes and stocks-up on fertilizer for example to manufacture their weapon of choice in order to achieve their aims. I don't see that removing guns removes the root cause.

But it would dramatically decrease the amount of gun fatalities, and therefore all homicide as gun fatalities are primarily created by convenient access to a gun.

I don't disagree Prairie - but I don't think that a dramatic decrease in gun fatalities deals with the issue. It's just the method.

 

[scenecreamer]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

If in the unlikely event the USA was completely gun-free, this still leaves the deranged individual driven by the need to destroy. So in a gun-free world off he or she goes and stocks-up on fertilizer for example to manufacture their weapon of choice in order to achieve their aims. I don't see that removing guns removes the root cause.

But it would dramatically decrease the amount of gun fatalities, and therefore all homicide as gun fatalities are primarily created by convenient access to a gun.

I don't disagree Prairie - but I don't think that a dramatic decrease in gun fatalities deals with the issue. It's just the method.

The argument you're making is one often put forth by gun ownership proponents. Not sure if that's your position...
It seems safe to say, if the majority of gun fatalities are crimes of convenience/impulse, removing guns from the situation will save lives as well as create the distance to address the problem. I mean, theres isn't one source of this violence. Trouble signs can be spotted and dealt with before someone is killed, because the sociopath will exhibit that behavior in other ways.

I agree with you that it doesn't alleviate the individuals problems, but it would alleviate the suffering of their victims. I think that takes precedents over an individuals so called right to own a firearm.

 

[buckshot]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

A big problem is that there are a lot of irrational gun owners here who can't be part of an intelligent conversation. You mention restrictions and they'll tell you that knives could kill people too so we should outlaw them as well or that since cars kill people everybody has to walk. Trying to explain to them that nobody ever walked into a theater with a steak knife and killed 12 and wounded countless others doesn't register.

 

[mammutly]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

The whole 'gun for protection' idea has one tiny flaw.

It's bollocks.

A gun is dangerous in a way that nothing else you can own is dangerous. Unless you love fatal accidents, you keep it locked up, in a safe place, unloaded. Unless the burglar calls ahead, there is no way you will ever be in a deathwish stance confronting the baddie with your loaded weapon. It's a stupid cowboy fantasy that keeps on costing innocent lives.

 

[1961_vintage]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

But it would dramatically decrease the amount of gun fatalities, and therefore all homicide as gun fatalities are primarily created by convenient access to a gun.

I don't disagree Prairie - but I don't think that a dramatic decrease in gun fatalities deals with the issue. It's just the method.

The argument you're making is one often put forth by gun ownership proponents. Not sure if that's your position...
It seems safe to say, if the majority of gun fatalities are crimes of convenience/impulse, removing guns from the situation will save lives as well as create the distance to address the problem. I mean, theres isn't one source of this violence. Trouble signs can be spotted and dealt with before someone is killed, because the sociopath will exhibit that behavior in other ways.

I agree with you that it doesn't alleviate the individuals problems, but it would alleviate the suffering of their victims. I think that takes precedents over an individuals so called right to own a firearm.

No position, just trying to engage in the debate and to understand why in response to an outrage such as this the immediate clamour is focused on reducing the widespread availability of firearms in the States. When deranged Dave of Denver feels the need to destroy human life, if guns happen to have been abolished then surely he will simply reach for an alternative method? Logic tells me that removing guns just moves the problem to removing fertilizer/ANFO or whatever else. In other words the gun is just the delivery method, to fix the problem we need to invest more in trying to understand what is creating these monsters in the first place.

 

[scenecreamer]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

I don't disagree Prairie - but I don't think that a dramatic decrease in gun fatalities deals with the issue. It's just the method.

The argument you're making is one often put forth by gun ownership proponents. Not sure if that's your position...
It seems safe to say, if the majority of gun fatalities are crimes of convenience/impulse, removing guns from the situation will save lives as well as create the distance to address the problem. I mean, theres isn't one source of this violence. Trouble signs can be spotted and dealt with before someone is killed, because the sociopath will exhibit that behavior in other ways.

I agree with you that it doesn't alleviate the individuals problems, but it would alleviate the suffering of their victims. I think that takes precedents over an individuals so called right to own a firearm.

No position, just trying to engage in the debate and to understand why in response to an outrage such as this the immediate clamour is focused on reducing the widespread availability of firearms in the States. When deranged Dave of Denver feels the need to destroy human life, if guns happen to have been abolished then surely he will simply reach for an alternative method? Logic tells me that removing guns just moves the problem to removing fertilizer/ANFO or whatever else. In other words the gun is just the delivery method, to fix the problem we need to invest more in trying to understand what is creating these monsters in the first place.

I think the fact that he was able to stockpile all of that ammunition legally within a sixty day period is shocking. Maybe he would have found another option and maybe someone close to him would have noticed he was having problems. I mean, it's not like there is only one thing creating things monsters. There isn't a single source and each case is unique I would think.

 

[Feed-The-Goat]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

Can Thatcher and the Middle class be blamed for this?

 

[mammutly]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

Can Thatcher and the Middle class be blamed for this?

Absolutely.


They should be shot

 

[1961_vintage]

Re: Another gun massacre in the States.

Can Thatcher and the Middle class be blamed for this?

Absolutely.


They should be shot

Or, for those operating in a gun-free state, have them anaesthetised, filled with an ammonium nitrate and diesel compound, and then placed in locations of strategic importance.