Another new Brexit thread

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Vic said:
What deal? Any deal? If he doesn't like it, mcfc1632 is a Remainer. And your advocacy of staying in the EEA would have you at odds with most of the 17.4m.

The bullshit factor has been high today.
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At odds with most of the 17.4 million? How do you know this? Have you polled each and every one of them personally? Fuck me, that must’ve taken up a lot of your time
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
How I voted? Pretty sure i've made that clear.

Didn't want a "Norway Style deal", I just wanted us to leave the EU and rejoin the EFTA.

How has it worked out shitting on the other half of the country by ignoring our wishes and intent? Has it been worth all the vitriol and anger aimed at you?
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So you voted for something different than some of your mates on here then & can start scratching each others eyes out when the actual details of this fucking fiasco come to light.

I have done absolutely nothing, to any of you or to your stupid fucking Brexit. I just have to sit here & have it shoved up my arse year after year day in day out.

And your comment re 'vitriol' aimed in the direction of those of us having it done to us, says it all. We are supposed to like it as well & say fuck all, whilst listening to the architects of this criminally stupid enterprise, moan about not getting enough of what they didn't vote for & don't agree on.

You deserve nothing.
 
BobKowalski said:
So what happens if we simply cannot agree on a deal as a way forward?

Johnson needs to get a deal that solves the NI problem. The Brexit Sec has said there isn’t a solution currently available outside of the backstop . The backstop in its current form (or NI version) is not acceptable to Unionists. The Govts new position - effectively an acceptance we cannot have frictionless trade and there has to be an Ireland border somewhere - is unacceptable to Unionists (sea) and Nationalists (land). The Nationalists solution of regulatory alignment, effectively in the EU Customs Union is not acceptable to Unionists. The DUP do accept though that for any solution to work it has to have the support of Unionists and Nationalists. The only acceptable solution to both Unionists and Nationalists is the current status quo (Single Market and Customs Union) but the DUP also support Brexit and along with the U.K. Govt has ruled out Single Market and Customs Union. Neither Dublin nor the EU will grant the U.K. a transition period without a legal divorce document nor will the put any stock in promises to sort it out later and ‘honest guv would we lie to you?’ reassurances.

The DUP have shifted a bit by accepting some regulatory alignment but that still leaves a lot outside of this alignment and the EU and Dublin will not jeopardise the Single Market, the biggest concern for the E27 countries, nor allow huge regulatory holes on their customs border with a third country. Juncker has shifted a bit by saying the backstop can go, provided we come up with something that does the same function and is legal and workable. Like a backstop. We could call it the Cheddar Cheese backstop if that makes it more palatable.

So we have to sort out the above and put it into legal form and get it ratified and pass the Withdrawal Implementation Act by 31st October. Now I don’t want to be a party pooper but I don’t see this happening in 40 days and with Parliament only sitting for 10 days or so of that 40. Which brings me back to the opening question.

What happens if we simply cannot agree on a deal as a way forward?
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Quite a neat summary of the NI problem. Thank you.
 
Vic said:
What deal? Any deal? If he doesn't like it, mcfc1632 is a Remainer. And your advocacy of staying in the EEA would have you at odds with most of the 17.4m.

The bullshit factor has been high today.
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Yep, there was some real bullshit last night, with the main Brexit bullshitters gloating that the Remainers have now said they’ll accept a deal. They’ve totally missed the fact that any deal acceptable to most Remainers would be unacceptable to most Leavers. There is no middle Brexit course acceptable to anything like a majority.
 
i kne albert davy said:
Really you feel it's the result of cutting 21000 police officers why certain people feel free to stick a knife in someone, well if it gives you some comfort to blame the tories I'm fine with that but all I'll say is 1959 the were less than 72 thousand police officers in the whole of the UK and there were 266 homicides which included manslaughter and infanticide in England and Wales,today there are 126 thousand police officers and the capital alone has suffered 132 homicides so far this year sort of gives lie to your theory.
Anybody who needs a policeman to ensure they don't stick a knife into someone else shouldn't be walking planet Earth.
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No ..... the issues are far wider than that....

The lack of Youth Clubs / Closure of Libraries / Cost of Sports Centres / Removal of sports facilities at school and on common area playing fields / Lack of Social Workers / lack of mental health care .... the list is endless but there is a common theme


Cuts have consequences!
 
M18CTID said:
At odds with most of the 17.4 million? How do you know this? Have you polled each and every one of them personally? Fuck me, that must’ve taken up a lot of your time
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So far as I recall, MB is the only Leave voter on here who thinks EFTA/EEA - being a rule taker and not a rule maker - would satisfy most of those who voted Leave. (Actually I'm not sure he thinks that, but it would satisfy him.)

Seeing the referendum result was "not entirely overwhelming" (Boris Johnson) it would have been the obvious compromise (and the only one that could fulfil the Leave promise that we would still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border).

But your point is ridiculous anyway. No-one has polled 17.4m about how to implement what they voted for. But polls do suggest about two thirds of them would leave with no deal and it's ridiculous to think they'd be happy with EFTA.
 
Vic said:
So far as I recall, MB is the only Leave voter on here who thinks EFTA/EEA - being a rule taker and not a rule maker - would satisfy most of those who voted Leave. (Actually I'm not sure he thinks that, but it would satisfy him.)

Seeing the referendum result was "not entirely overwhelming" (Boris Johnson) it would have been the obvious compromise (and the only one that could fulfil the Leave promise that we would still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border).

But your point is ridiculous anyway. No-one has polled 17.4m about how to implement what they voted for. But polls do suggest about two thirds of them would leave with no deal and it's ridiculous to think they'd be happy with EFTA.
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Two thirds? You got a link to any of these polls? I'm not disputing it but from my own experience and the Leavers I know, very few want us out without a deal. Most do want the Brexit impasse resolved and soon though, just like most Remainers, and two thirds of Leavers saying they'd leave with no deal doesn't necessarily mean that's their most preferred option, and is probably as much an indication of the nation being pissed off with the whole thing as opposed to actually wanting No Deal. Just like those Remainers saying they'd take a soft Brexit but it isn't their preferred option. Christ, I know one staunch Remainer who wants us out - preferably with a deal of course, but if it comes down to No Deal then so be it in his eyes. It's not what he wants of course but he's probably more receptive to No Deal than I am!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the lines have become so blurred that it's not as simple as Remain/Leave/Deal/No Deal anymore, and there are overlaps all over the place.
 
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Sky just invited ex Defence Minister, ****, on to 'talk about Junker's comments on 'the prospects of a deal'.

He said barely anything about that, knew barely anything about what might happen, started moaning about Parliament, saying how 'leave' won & slagging off the EU & mentioning 'no deal'.

Why was he invited on ? Of course, to do exactly that.
 
Vic said:
So far as I recall, MB is the only Leave voter on here who thinks EFTA/EEA - being a rule taker and not a rule maker - would satisfy most of those who voted Leave. (Actually I'm not sure he thinks that, but it would satisfy him.)

Seeing the referendum result was "not entirely overwhelming" (Boris Johnson) it would have been the obvious compromise (and the only one that could fulfil the Leave promise that we would still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border).

But your point is ridiculous anyway. No-one has polled 17.4m about how to implement what they voted for. But polls do suggest about two thirds of them would leave with no deal and it's ridiculous to think they'd be happy with EFTA.
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It’s true that most of the leavers are in favour of no deal. But I wonder how much of that is down to them being intellectually opposed to a soft Brexit and how much is down to frustration at the seemingly endless process and them seeing no deal as the best way to bring it to a conclusion.

I think if we were to leave with a deal (without another referendum) then initially nearly everyone will be unhappy. Which is better than one side being triumphant and the other vanquished. Fairly quickly the heat will be removed from the argument. Within a short period I would expect there would be 3 way split in the electorate. 20-25% would be Clean Breakers, 20-25% would be Rejoiners and 50-60% would be Thank God It’s All Overs. And I think the latter group would hold sway.
 
west didsblue said:
Yep, there was some real bullshit last night, with the main Brexit bullshitters gloating that the Remainers have now said they’ll accept a deal. They’ve totally missed the fact that any deal acceptable to most Remainers would be unacceptable to most Leavers. There is no middle Brexit course acceptable to anything like a majority.
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For new readers, it was dafter than that. They asked what compromise Remainers would accept, and unless you said you'd accept no compromise, you were branded a Leaver.
 
cibaman said:
It’s true that most of the leavers are in favour of no deal. But I wonder how much of that is down to them being intellectually opposed to a soft Brexit and how much is down to frustration at the seemingly endless process and them seeing no deal as the best way to bring it to a conclusion.

I think if we were to leave with a deal (without another referendum) then initially nearly everyone will be unhappy. Which is better than one side being triumphant and the other vanquished. Fairly quickly the heat will be removed from the argument. Within a short period I would expect there would be 3 way split in the electorate. 20-25% would be Clean Breakers, 20-25% would be Rejoiners and 50-60% would be Thank God It’s All Overs. And I think the latter group would hold sway.
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Until they realised it Wasn't All Over.

I'm going to spoil it now by suggesting that "intellectually opposed to a soft Brexit" demands intellect.
 
Neville Kneville said:
So you voted for something different than some of your mates on here then & can start scratching each others eyes out when the actual details of this fucking fiasco come to light.

I have done absolutely nothing, to any of you or to your stupid fucking Brexit. I just have to sit here & have it shoved up my arse year after year day in day out.

And your comment re 'vitriol' aimed in the direction of those of us having it done to us, says it all. We are supposed to like it as well & say fuck all, whilst listening to the architects of this criminally stupid enterprise, moan about not getting enough of what they didn't vote for & don't agree on.

You deserve nothing.
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You wanna calm down there a bit?
 
lancs blue said:
Do you really think that the £150m is the only consideration? No deal Brexit leads to a reduction in GDP of 5.5% even by the latest lower estimates, that's over £100bn less going through the economy in a year, your £150m a week is £7.8bn a year. A bit of a difference, and that's without factoring in the effects of any new global recession which is reckoned to be on the horizon in the next couple of years.
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Estimates!! Opinions!! Given by experts who may be Remainers. Give me FACTS, actual numbers that can be challenged or verified. Nobody can, because nobody knows. I've heard that Germany is racing towards a recession pretty soon. Should we remain in the EU to prop them up? I don't know, give me numbers not opinions to help me decide.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
‘But in the end it’s only a passing thing, this shadow; even darkness must pass.’
Samwise Gamgee
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SAM-GYIMAH-CONFIDENCE-copy.png

Is he a relative?
 
M18CTID said:
Two thirds? You got a link to any of these polls? I'm not disputing it but from my own experience and the Leavers I know, very few want us out without a deal. Most do want the Brexit impasse resolved and soon though, just like most Remainers, and two thirds of Leavers saying they'd leave with no deal doesn't necessarily mean that's their most preferred option, and is probably as much an indication of the nation being pissed off with the whole thing as opposed to actually wanting No Deal. Just like those Remainers saying they'd take a soft Brexit but it isn't their preferred option. Christ, I know one staunch Remainer who wants us out - preferably with a deal of course, but if it comes down to No Deal then so be it in his eyes. It's not what he wants of course but he's probably more receptive to No Deal than I am!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the lines have become so blurred that it's not as simple as Remain/Leave/Deal/No Deal anymore, and there are overlaps all over the place.
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I’d go along with that. As this drags on, and drag on it will, more people will harden their position on no deal and also on revoke. I no longer think a deal is achievable (the Barclay speech in Madrid was the sound of a deal breathing its last) so I think attention needs to turn to what happens next because with either no deal or revoke it won’t be over. Even if by some miracle we leave with a deal it just means phase 1 is over and phase 2 (the really fraught bit) begins.

We are at a crossroad and none of the roads are easy.
 
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