Any reasonable offer accepted

[Kippaxstreetheadache]

I think the gulf in technical quality between a lot of players has become particularly apparent after the signings this summer, mainly because of Fernandinho and Negredo (think Jovetic will show it once he starts playing more, ditto Navas but to a slightly lesser extent). I said earlier on in the season when Edin was playing that he was starting to stick out like a sore thumb as his ability on the ball looked so poor when surrounded by the rest of the midfield and attacking players, but there's a lot of players that are being shown up a bit now. When we had Barry in central midfield, although decent and fairly comfortable on the ball, he still bumbled about with it at times in comparison to the likes of Nasri and Silva, whereas Barry's replacement Fernandinho is one of the slickest little operators in the game. His control, skill, quick thinking and slick passing has been a big upgrade on Barry (as good as Barry was), particularly with us upping the tempo of play this season, and with central midfield being such an influential position, having Fernandinho in there along with Dave, Yaya, the much improved Nasri (although he was always comfortable on the ball) and Aguero if you throw a player in there who isn't particularly great technically then they're gonna stand out. At the start of the season that was Dzeko, and he stuck out a fucking mile. Throw Negredo in there and there's no problem at all. You play a quick, hard ball in to his feet and he'll stop it dead no worries, might even do something better with it like he did when he turned dawson inside out on sunday, but you give the same ball to Dzeko and there's a good chance he'll be unable to control it well enough and play will slow down or break it down completely and we'll lose posession. But with the forward six of Negredo, Aguero, Dave, Nasri, Fern and Yaya you've got a fucking serious bunch of players of which every one of them is so comfortable on the ball, with each of them capable of an unpredictable element by which they can use their skill and awareness to change and dictate the play, or at least when they are moving the ball in a more predictable manner (e.g obvious pass sideways) they'll control it and move it much quicker than the like of Garcia which will help us to stretch teams and create gaps.

You can substitue Navas in for someone in that forward six no problem, ditto Jovetic , whose feet are impeccable. But the likes of MIlner and Javi Garcia are gonna stand out and slow the play down. Rodwell I'm not sure about yet, I think he has the potential to do ok and might just about fit in, should he ever get fit, but I don't think that there's any doubt that there's a huge drop in quality in central midfield when Yaya or Fernandinho are out and that another centre mid is a priority for the squad.

As for the defence, I think although his form as gone off Clichy is well capable, Vinnie obviously, Nastasic has got it and so has Zaba. They're all comfortable on the ball and can knock it about at a high tempo without slowing play down, which is what we need to stretch teams and create gaps. So the starting 11 is fine. Lescott has stood out for years, and although he's a good defender he'll be on his way soon. Kolarov is Kolarov and I think one of the most intriguing positions is at right back with Micah and Zab. This is because in the title winning season Micah was so important to us, and even last season with Zabs great for I might have preferred a fit Micah to start, but now Zaba's ability to be more comfortable on the ball is particularly noticeable, which on top of his reliability makes it a no brainer to start over Micah.

At the end of the day we play week in week out in the premiership where the play isn't as technical as in europe and a lot of players might not stand out as much. And I think there're games when you might need the likes of Milner there, so how many of the less technical players can we get away with in the team? Obviously more at home. The sunderland away fixture seemed obvious that we didn't have enough quality players in there to give us a good enough advantage for my liking to win the game (RIchards, Kolarov, Garcia, Lescott, Milner not up to scratch compared to the likes of Aguero and Yaya) but if we'd have had Fern in there instead of Garcia that one change would have had a huge impact, such is the gulf in quality between the 2 players, and 1 or 2 more changes and we really would have had a far superior team that probably would have won. As it was I felt the team we put out that day didn't really have too much of an advantage. I know our away form is down to many other things, and the sunderland game in particular was down to us being unable to break them down, but I used that as an example because it was a situation where you could look at our team and think 'that ain't gonna be enough'.

I think we’re in another transition period where we’re about to go up another level if we do it right. Cut a long story short, I think if we replace Garcia with another proper centre mid, get Dzeko out of there (Jovetic is up to it) and 1 more of the lesser defenders and we should be able to consistently field a team of players who can all knock it about fluently and we can hopefully play the very high standard of game we’re capable of a lot more often than we’re doing at the moment

Mate, that is such a good post.

I agree 100%

Likewise. Great post Hombre.

 

[greasedupdeafguy]

In my opinion

Milner - Will be offered a new deal.

Richards - Will be offered new deal.

Lescott - No new deal and will go when his contract is up.

Kolarov - He will be sold this summer for around 3m as contract almost up so we will cash in on him but we won’t get much.

Dzeko - Don’t even think Edin will see out Jan. Dortmund deal if you ask me ask Lewendowski is off to Munich. Maybe 12m. If not sold in Jan he will go for £6/7m in summer with 1 year left to run.

Garcia - He will be here for a while. Popular member with all the Spanish lads too. Only will leave if he wants. Hopefully Pellers wont play him much and he will want to go else where

Fucking hope not hes the worst of the lot. As much as I don't rate the others (apart from Micah and to an extent Milner) Dzeko does get goals as can Kolarov who can also deliver a decent ball every so often. Garcia is just awful, its basically like playing with 10 men plus a cone in the middle of the pitch when he plays.

 

[johnbmcr]

I think they will be gone soon enough.

Micah still has his believers but he really needs to improve because he has been average to poor in every game he has played this season. He is heading towards last chance saloon very quickly.

the MCFC last chance saloon must be huge!!! even bigger than the Moon over water and have a wealth of insufficiency already in there Richards will not be lonely

 

[GX Blue]

The point many here are missing is these are all backup players. You are not going to get the likes of Kompany, Toure, Negredo, etc. and be content with having them sit on the bench and play the odd Cup game or step in when someone is injured. What you want is someone who is hungry, has a good work ethic and is comfortable with a support role.

As such, I would keep Lescott and Richards. I know Richards has been poor, but he has had a very long injury layoff and I'd like to see more of him before drawing any conclusion. Moreover, we know we need a frontline CB and LB. Don't see we have the luxury of shopping for a RB also - and frankly it would just be too much turnover and likely indiscriminant spending.

I could make the same logic for Dzeko also - he has proven to be very handy coming off the bench with (say) 25 mins to go. My only question is his attitude which seems to have deteriorated. Seems very in it for himself and thinks he is better than he actually is, I think that one is for MP to sit down with him and convince him he has a future as the #3 striker at one of Europe's top clubs. Otherwise, he can go and be the front man at a lesser club if he prefers.

Kolarov likewise. He is another guy who has the ability to come on and turn games. He has scored been involved in some crucial goals - his link-up with Nasri in the Manchester derby a few weeks ago, the free kick against Real Madrid, the famous equalizer against Sunderland in our title winning season. Yes he is a defensive liability, but if he has the right attitude, used strategically at the right moments, he can be a decent backup. The problem IMO is Clichy (who really should be the #1 LB) is way below his level at Arsenal and when he first arrived. He seems to have lost 2 yards of pace and regularly gets embarrassed by anyone with any speed or trickery. And he gives us less than Kolarov going forward. I might actually look to replace him instead.

Garcia I would definitely dump - sorry but he is plain mediocre (and that's probably kind). Sinclair probably also, although to be honest he has hardly played at all so I can't really judge. But I am assuming he must have been less than impressive in practice.

You'd have to ask Steve Clarke?
Which makes me think this is an ironic twist?

 

[lasereyes]

I think the gulf in technical quality between a lot of players has become particularly apparent after the signings this summer, mainly because of Fernandinho and Negredo (think Jovetic will show it once he starts playing more, ditto Navas but to a slightly lesser extent). I said earlier on in the season when Edin was playing that he was starting to stick out like a sore thumb as his ability on the ball looked so poor when surrounded by the rest of the midfield and attacking players, but there's a lot of players that are being shown up a bit now. When we had Barry in central midfield, although decent and fairly comfortable on the ball, he still bumbled about with it at times in comparison to the likes of Nasri and Silva, whereas Barry's replacement Fernandinho is one of the slickest little operators in the game. His control, skill, quick thinking and slick passing has been a big upgrade on Barry (as good as Barry was), particularly with us upping the tempo of play this season, and with central midfield being such an influential position, having Fernandinho in there along with Dave, Yaya, the much improved Nasri (although he was always comfortable on the ball) and Aguero if you throw a player in there who isn't particularly great technically then they're gonna stand out. At the start of the season that was Dzeko, and he stuck out a fucking mile. Throw Negredo in there and there's no problem at all. You play a quick, hard ball in to his feet and he'll stop it dead no worries, might even do something better with it like he did when he turned dawson inside out on sunday, but you give the same ball to Dzeko and there's a good chance he'll be unable to control it well enough and play will slow down or break it down completely and we'll lose posession. But with the forward six of Negredo, Aguero, Dave, Nasri, Fern and Yaya you've got a fucking serious bunch of players of which every one of them is so comfortable on the ball, with each of them capable of an unpredictable element by which they can use their skill and awareness to change and dictate the play, or at least when they are moving the ball in a more predictable manner (e.g obvious pass sideways) they'll control it and move it much quicker than the like of Garcia which will help us to stretch teams and create gaps.

You can substitue Navas in for someone in that forward six no problem, ditto Jovetic , whose feet are impeccable. But the likes of MIlner and Javi Garcia are gonna stand out and slow the play down. Rodwell I'm not sure about yet, I think he has the potential to do ok and might just about fit in, should he ever get fit, but I don't think that there's any doubt that there's a huge drop in quality in central midfield when Yaya or Fernandinho are out and that another centre mid is a priority for the squad.

As for the defence, I think although his form as gone off Clichy is well capable, Vinnie obviously, Nastasic has got it and so has Zaba. They're all comfortable on the ball and can knock it about at a high tempo without slowing play down, which is what we need to stretch teams and create gaps. So the starting 11 is fine. Lescott has stood out for years, and although he's a good defender he'll be on his way soon. Kolarov is Kolarov and I think one of the most intriguing positions is at right back with Micah and Zab. This is because in the title winning season Micah was so important to us, and even last season with Zabs great for I might have preferred a fit Micah to start, but now Zaba's ability to be more comfortable on the ball is particularly noticeable, which on top of his reliability makes it a no brainer to start over Micah.

At the end of the day we play week in week out in the premiership where the play isn't as technical as in europe and a lot of players might not stand out as much. And I think there're games when you might need the likes of Milner there, so how many of the less technical players can we get away with in the team? Obviously more at home. The sunderland away fixture seemed obvious that we didn't have enough quality players in there to give us a good enough advantage for my liking to win the game (RIchards, Kolarov, Garcia, Lescott, Milner not up to scratch compared to the likes of Aguero and Yaya) but if we'd have had Fern in there instead of Garcia that one change would have had a huge impact, such is the gulf in quality between the 2 players, and 1 or 2 more changes and we really would have had a far superior team that probably would have won. As it was I felt the team we put out that day didn't really have too much of an advantage. I know our away form is down to many other things, and the sunderland game in particular was down to us being unable to break them down, but I used that as an example because it was a situation where you could look at our team and think 'that ain't gonna be enough'.

I think we’re in another transition period where we’re about to go up another level if we do it right. Cut a long story short, I think if we replace Garcia with another proper centre mid, get Dzeko out of there (Jovetic is up to it) and 1 more of the lesser defenders and we should be able to consistently field a team of players who can all knock it about fluently and we can hopefully play the very high standard of game we’re capable of a lot more often than we’re doing at the moment

I think your basic point about technical ability is bang-on (and couldnt agree more with your comments on Dzeko). But I think some of your individual assessments are harsh. For instance, "Lescott has stood our for years" ... bud, Lescott was outstanding in our title-winning season which was the season before last. He did f**k-up in the final game on the Cisse goal, which could have cost us the title, but he and Kompany played a huge part in getting us to that point - they were rock solid in a way we have sorely missed this year. Likewise, Milner not up to scratch -- unfair IMHO. Sure he doesn't have the dazzling footwork of Silva or Nasri, but he is mostly solid, moves well, and fits in well to the formation. I think MP plays him out of position - he looks much more comfortable in central midfield, where he can be an effective backup for Toure or Fernandiho. In fact, in some of the sucker-punch games (away to a lower team on a freezing Jan night), you can make a case for his starting over Toure, who tends to go MIA on those lower limelight days).

 

[BigOscar]

I hear people saying Milner is best in CM, but I really can't recall him ever playing there for us, or certainly not to any significance. All his best games for us I recall have been big games where he's played RM (the 6-1, Arsenal away and a few others). Unfortunately, he simply isn't good enough. He is too slow of thought and his movement isn't clever enough to play as an attacking player in our style.This year in particular he has been absolutely woeful, whenever he's started game on the right he has just crippled us going forward. He's probably our best crosser of the ball, but his overall play is just so sloppy and cumbersome, he sticks out like a sore thumb from our other attacking players. I like him, but he really isn't suited to the way we play at all.

It's pretty damning that most england supporters think he is too unskillful and cumbersome to play for England (although I don't agree with that), but if you stand out as technically ordinary in a side as technically ordinary as England, there must be something to it

 

[lasereyes]

Just look back to our games at Sunderland and last night. In both cases, Milner started on the right wing, but came to the centre when Navas came on and looked a whole lot better.

 

[cleavers]

Something I think people forget, is that we do need to have a quota of English/homegrown players for the PL and CL, so there are some we probably have to keep, and/or replace like for like.

I'm sure next season we'll have enough quality from the EDS to make up any requirement for such.

You've more confidence than me then. I think it'll be 2 or 3 years at least before we can bring enough through, that are good enough to fill in and give the first teamers a break.

 

[BigOscar]

Just look back to our games at Sunderland and last night. In both cases, Milner started on the right wing, but came to the centre when Navas came on and looked a whole lot better.

I'd put that more down to Milner not being on the right anymore, than his exceptional central play

 

[citytill1die84]

Keep Micah