Arsenal Thread 2013/14

[GunnerGer]

Your team was a strong one and this was when the Premiership was truly the best in the world. The top 4 in the Premiership were probably the top 5 in Europe alongside Barcelona.

However, as strong as you were for me United and Chelsea were strong. This is the United team that had Scholes, Hagreaves, Carrick in midfield with back up like Fletche. Cristiano Ronaldo the best player in the world, Rooney, Tevez a young promising Nani. Their defence had Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic and then they had VDS in goal. For me only the Chelsea team of 2006 was better in the Premiership.

Then you look at Chelsea, who had Cech, Terry, Carlvalho, Cole with Lampard, Esssien, Makalele and Ballack in midfield. Robben and Cole on the wings with Drogba upfront.

You may have been keeping pace with them, but they had stronger first 11s in my opinion. That was truly the golden age of the Premiership though.

There can be no denying the quality in both those teams, especially united. Taggart's 2007/8 best xi would have taken the '99 Treble team to the cleaners imo. It was the high point of his management, quality wise.

Not sure your claim about the best 4 in the Premier League being in the top 5 in Europe though, which undermines your claim about it being the golden age for the Premier League a little. I would say collectively the top 4 English clubs are about as much of a force as they were back then, give or take, and most certainly the ridiculous assertions that were being made by some prophets of doom last summer about the decline of the Premier League were injudicious and hasty to say the least.

The bare facts are that French football isn't good enough, Serie A is utterly fucked, The collective greed of the Spanish big 2 and the increasing hegemony of Bayern means there are only seven serious contenders for the Champions League (although some are more serious than others) the majority of which are English.

I may be proved wholly incorrect, of course, but I believe that the Premier League will continue to attract the best talent for financial, infrastructure and global exposure reasons and the next five years could just as easily be referred to as the "Golden Age" for English club football.

I'm not sure about the title of golden age, but what I would certainly agree with is all the teams mentioned are better than their respective present day teams. I think that proven in the 5 years between 2004 & 2009 there was at least 1 English team in the final of the Champions League, and often 2 or sometimes 3 teams making up the semi finals.

What the respective teams are just now are work in progresses, including City. Gordon's assessment is correct in saying the infrastructure is now there for all the teams now to grow and improve and become proper European forces (although i thinks Utd with their ageing team have most work to do). Of course, it depends on good management of the teams mentioned, and in part the life cycles of the current powerhouses like Bayern and Barcelona. It might be a bit early this year to happen but certainly next year the teams should have improved even more!

 

[Blue Coop]

John Cross has just come from Wenger's presser for tomorrows match:

Ramsey out 3 weeks.
Ozil out 2-3 weeks.
Wilshere doubtful.
Giroud out tomorrow.
Gibbs out tomorrow with calf problem.
Walcott doubtful.
Rosicky doubtful.
Vermaelen is ill.
Monreal is ill.

Shame they've got a game they should win.

 

[aguero93:20]

Your team was a strong one and this was when the Premiership was truly the best in the world. The top 4 in the Premiership were probably the top 5 in Europe alongside Barcelona.

However, as strong as you were for me United and Chelsea were strong. This is the United team that had Scholes, Hagreaves, Carrick in midfield with back up like Fletche. Cristiano Ronaldo the best player in the world, Rooney, Tevez a young promising Nani. Their defence had Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic and then they had VDS in goal. For me only the Chelsea team of 2006 was better in the Premiership.

Then you look at Chelsea, who had Cech, Terry, Carlvalho, Cole with Lampard, Esssien, Makalele and Ballack in midfield. Robben and Cole on the wings with Drogba upfront.

You may have been keeping pace with them, but they had stronger first 11s in my opinion. That was truly the golden age of the Premiership though.

There can be no denying the quality in both those teams, especially united. Taggart's 2007/8 best xi would have taken the '99 Treble team to the cleaners imo. It was the high point of his management, quality wise.

Not sure your claim about the best 4 in the Premier League being in the top 5 in Europe though, which undermines your claim about it being the golden age for the Premier League a little. I would say collectively the top 4 English clubs are about as much of a force as they were back then, give or take, and most certainly the ridiculous assertions that were being made by some prophets of doom last summer about the decline of the Premier League were injudicious and hasty to say the least.

The bare facts are that French football isn't good enough, Serie A is utterly fucked, The collective greed of the Spanish big 2 and the increasing hegemony of Bayern means there are only seven serious contenders for the Champions League (although some are more serious than others) the majority of which are English.

I may be proved wholly incorrect, of course, but I believe that the Premier League will continue to attract the best talent for financial, infrastructure and global exposure reasons and the next five years could just as easily be referred to as the "Golden Age" for English club football.

atleti and bvb (injuries permitting) are more serious contenders than the rags or Chelsea in my eyes<br /><br />-- Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:16 pm --<br /><br />

John Cross has just come from Wenger's presser for tomorrows match:

Ramsey out 3 weeks.
Ozil out 2-3 weeks.
Wilshere doubtful.
Giroud out tomorrow.
Gibbs out tomorrow with calf problem.
Walcott doubtful.
Rosicky doubtful.
Vermaelen is ill.
Monreal is ill.

Shame they've got a game they should win.

someone tell Cardiff to park the bus tomorrow and use the right wing to counter.

 

[Gillespie]

Arsenal have been hit with injuries

Ozil
Giroud
Gibbs
Ramsey

Doubts are

Walcott
Rosicky
Wilshere

Tomorrows game at home to Cardiff might not be such a shoe in

 

[supercrystal7]

Your team was a strong one and this was when the Premiership was truly the best in the world. The top 4 in the Premiership were probably the top 5 in Europe alongside Barcelona.

However, as strong as you were for me United and Chelsea were strong. This is the United team that had Scholes, Hagreaves, Carrick in midfield with back up like Fletche. Cristiano Ronaldo the best player in the world, Rooney, Tevez a young promising Nani. Their defence had Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic and then they had VDS in goal. For me only the Chelsea team of 2006 was better in the Premiership.

Then you look at Chelsea, who had Cech, Terry, Carlvalho, Cole with Lampard, Esssien, Makalele and Ballack in midfield. Robben and Cole on the wings with Drogba upfront.

You may have been keeping pace with them, but they had stronger first 11s in my opinion. That was truly the golden age of the Premiership though.

There can be no denying the quality in both those teams, especially united. Taggart's 2007/8 best xi would have taken the '99 Treble team to the cleaners imo. It was the high point of his management, quality wise.

Not sure your claim about the best 4 in the Premier League being in the top 5 in Europe though, which undermines your claim about it being the golden age for the Premier League a little. I would say collectively the top 4 English clubs are about as much of a force as they were back then, give or take, and most certainly the ridiculous assertions that were being made by some prophets of doom last summer about the decline of the Premier League were injudicious and hasty to say the least.

The bare facts are that French football isn't good enough, Serie A is utterly fucked, The collective greed of the Spanish big 2 and the increasing hegemony of Bayern means there are only seven serious contenders for the Champions League (although some are more serious than others) the majority of which are English.

I may be proved wholly incorrect, of course, but I believe that the Premier League will continue to attract the best talent for financial, infrastructure and global exposure reasons and the next five years could just as easily be referred to as the "Golden Age" for English club football.

Well who exactly were the top 5 teams in Europe during that period? An English team made the CL final for 5 consecutive years. 6/10 CL finalist were English. On a regular basis we had 4/8 English teams in the quarter finals and made 3/4 semi finalist in 08 and 2007. I think if we were having a top 6 teams during that period then Milan would would be in it, but they began to fall away in 07 despite winning the CL.

At the moment the quality of the top teams has spread out. Just like with the Premiership there actually is not much difference between the top teams. Bayern, Barca and Madrid are slightly above all the English teams in terms of quality. PSG, Dortmund and Atletico are probably behind City, but equal to the other top teams. Serie A is far from destroyed. Juventus let themselvesd down, but are as good as any of the English teams except City. Napoli still have a weak defence, but went out in the group of death with the highest points total ever. So in short an English team may win it, we may even get 4/8 in the quarters, but we are no longer better than the rest. No English team is even in the top 3 favouites.



For the future, who knows but already Madrid and Bayern look set to be as good if not better than the best English teams compared to the 05-09 period when they were very weak. Barcelona will remain strong too. PSG are a force and here to stay. They will only get better and then Monaco might emerge as a force too. Juventus and Napoli despite poor campaigns are far from down. They would have had a shot of going very far in this year's tournament had they made it. As for Dortmund Klopp is an incredible manager. The odds are against him, but he may be able to keep them at top.

 

[AwayDay]

I dont think 2008 was a golden age for english football, The champions league results were helped a lot by barcelona and bayern munich being in the early stages of rebuilding and real madrid being a shambles.

United had an excellent team, but the chelsea team then was far weaker than the one they had under mourinho the first time, and our team that led the table for 24 out of 38 weeks relied too much on injury prone players like cesc rvp and diaby and mentally weak ones like gallas, adebayor,hleb,eboue. We lost 4-0 at united in the fa cup and 5-1 at spurs in the carling cup, as well as 4-2 at liverpool in the quarter finals of the champions league. That would've been our weakest squad to win the premier league, as will this one be, but what we have now is mentally tougher players and more experienced players at the right age, even if we lack a bit of quality in the strikers department. I would definitely go with this squad ahead of that one that had so little fight in them, both are still not up to scratch and we will probably fall short again, but its nice to be spoken of as title challengers again.

 

[AwayDay]

We got so many players out tomorrow, I might take my boots to the game, it seems to work for bendtner .

In some ways we are lucky to get the crisis now and not last week, the transfer window is open and we have a 12 day break till the next league game. As long as we beat cardiff , I would have wanted us to make changes for the fa cup anyway.

 

[supercrystal7]

I dont think 2008 was a golden age for english football, The champions league results were helped a lot by barcelona and bayern munich being in the early stages of rebuilding and real madrid being a shambles.

United had an excellent team, but the chelsea team then was far weaker than the one they had under mourinho the first time, and our team that led the table for 24 out of 38 weeks relied too much on injury prone players like cesc rvp and diaby and mentally weak ones like gallas, adebayor,hleb,eboue. We lost 4-0 at united in the fa cup and 5-1 at spurs in the carling cup, as well as 4-2 at liverpool in the quarter finals of the champions league. That would've been our weakest squad to win the premier league, as will this one be, but what we have now is mentally tougher players and more experienced players at the right age, even if we lack a bit of quality in the strikers department. I would definitely go with this squad ahead of that one that had so little fight in them, both are still not up to scratch and we will probably fall short again, but its nice to be spoken of as title challengers again.

The Chelsea team was weaker than in the years prior, but was still incredibly strong and in my opinion stronger than any of the current teams. The early Mourinho team and most notably the 2005/6 team was the best the Premier League has ever seen. Chelsea had problems with the manager and Mourinho was sacked, but the players were still virtually the same as before. There are only so many top players to go aroubd. Europe being weak means more top players were attracted to the Premiership. You only need to look to see that Robben, Ronaldo, Mascherano and Alonso all left the league in their primes. No notable world class player was brought in and United just continued to play the same aging team as did Chelsea. It's only City who actually injected new quality in the Premiership.

For me the Arsenal team of 08 was more talented, but as you said they lacked fight and mental strength. This Arsenal team has actually had good bit of fight and mental strength for a while. They simply did not have the quality. The run to get fourth in the last two seasons was quite impressive.

As for this season City are the stand out team and it's their title to lose. I don't see much difference in the quality of first teams between Chelsea, United and even Liverpool really. Chelsea and United have the better squads and more experience, whilst Chelsea have the best manager and United probably the worst.

 

[AwayDay]

All the top teams have gone backwards in recent years, apart from manchester city. Maybe the league lacks in quality to years gone by but the drama and excitement is still top notch.

 

[Newman Noggs]

I dont think 2008 was a golden age for english football, The champions league results were helped a lot by barcelona and bayern munich being in the early stages of rebuilding and real madrid being a shambles.

United had an excellent team, but the chelsea team then was far weaker than the one they had under mourinho the first time, and our team that led the table for 24 out of 38 weeks relied too much on injury prone players like cesc rvp and diaby and mentally weak ones like gallas, adebayor,hleb,eboue. We lost 4-0 at united in the fa cup and 5-1 at spurs in the carling cup, as well as 4-2 at liverpool in the quarter finals of the champions league. That would've been our weakest squad to win the premier league, as will this one be, but what we have now is mentally tougher players and more experienced players at the right age, even if we lack a bit of quality in the strikers department. I would definitely go with this squad ahead of that one that had so little fight in them, both are still not up to scratch and we will probably fall short again, but its nice to be spoken of as title challengers again.

The Chelsea team was weaker than in the years prior, but was still incredibly strong and in my opinion stronger than any of the current teams. The early Mourinho team and most notably the 2005/6 team was the best the Premier League has ever seen. Chelsea had problems with the manager and Mourinho was sacked, but the players were still virtually the same as before. There are only so many top players to go aroubd. Europe being weak means more top players were attracted to the Premiership. You only need to look to see that Robben, Ronaldo, Mascherano and Alonso all left the league in their primes. No notable world class player was brought in and United just continued to play the same aging team as did Chelsea. It's only City who actually injected new quality in the Premiership.

For me the Arsenal team of 08 was more talented, but as you said they lacked fight and mental strength. This Arsenal team has actually had good bit of fight and mental strength for a while. They simply did not have the quality. The run to get fourth in the last two seasons was quite impressive.

As for this season City are the stand out team and it's their title to lose. I don't see much difference in the quality of first teams between Chelsea, United and even Liverpool really. Chelsea and United have the better squads and more experience, whilst Chelsea have the best manager and United probably the worst.

City's title to lose ?? Yes thank you Brendan. What a pathetic piece of deflection. On what basis can that claim be true ? Must be the first time ever that a team has had the title in its hands without actually being top of the league at any stage.