Arsenal Thread 2013/14

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LoveCity said:
NoahCity said:
Can't believe this but it looks like it will be Arsenal's title this year.

Chelsea had won every game except one against us by October in the 2010/2011 season and ended up joint on points with us well behind United. Maybe Arsenal will continue like this but personally I think they will drop off some.

I thought that they would challenge for the title this season based on the end of last season. Since about February, they've won nearly every game they've played. My thought is that they were poor at the beginning of last season because they lost RVP and brought in a number of new faces, and it took time to turn that group into a team.

I don't think they will drop off, because the reasons people are using to suggest so don't make sense. Their squad is already decimated and they're still winning games.
 
Arsenal are benefiting from managerial stability, if anything though, Arsenal could have sealed this years title had they bought a few more quality players in the market in my opinion.
 
Looks to me like United will be shit this year. We need to solve things out away from home. Tottenham and Chelsea I can;t quite tell, but Chelsea have problems at striker, DM and defence while Spurs will take a while to gel and are still a bit inconsistent. Arsenal seem to just keep rolling on, I don't think they will fall away, they already have 9 players inured and are still winning!
 
They could well piss the league if they don't qualify from the CL group. The way they're grinding out results amid an injury crisis is admirable.
 
sam-caddick said:
Arsenal are benefiting from managerial stability, if anything though, Arsenal could have sealed this years title had they bought a few more quality players in the market in my opinion.

They have the money to strengthen their squad if needed in January, so do Chelsea and the rags.
One he'll of a battle for the top 4 this season.
 
Shirley said:
sam-caddick said:
Arsenal are benefiting from managerial stability, if anything though, Arsenal could have sealed this years title had they bought a few more quality players in the market in my opinion.

They have the money to strengthen their squad if needed in January, so do Chelsea and the rags.
One he'll of a battle for the top 4 this season.
They may well not even need to buy, maybe 1 decent striker. In a month, they're getting like 5 quality players back. That's almost like new signings and will spur them on even more.
 
A spanner will fly into their clockwork eventually. It always does.
 
more lazy than useless said:
Thanks for that. I understood the idea behind the Arsenal plan - finance the stadium and it will finance the rest - and it was no doubt the right thing for Arsenal to do in the circumstances imo, but I think you might be being a little harsh on your club about the sponsorship deals. They did tie themselves into long up front deals (and almost came unstuck the last couple of seasons by the look of it, having to sell players/players wanting to leave) but I don't think anybody could have foreseen how the value of those deals would go through the roof over the same period. Just unfortunate timing. Definitely other clubs would love to be able to do what Arsenal have done, but not being in the CL is a major reason they cant. Not having the large stadium incomes is part of the reason they can't make CL. Catch 22!

For some reason though I thought Arsenal had paid off all the big debts and now had the big income, so I was surprised at the financial figures. Its probably that I don't keep close tabs on this stuff and as it's spread out over years I loose the time perspective (eg these 'new' figures cover 4 months ago to 16 months ago - new deals kick in soon for next few years).

Was reading this with interest so ill try and embellish a bit on afc16 post regards the finances.

Of course, the headline in the statement is that Arsenal needed player sales to make a profit, but of course in the same period the purchased Podolski, Giroud, Cazorla and Monreal, so they just about broke even on player transfers.

The small profit each year in my opinion is what most clubs should aspire to do, basically spend what you make. It's not sustainable for Arsenal to make big losses, but equally the fans will be upset if there are big profits without player purchases.

In terms of the actual finances, Arsenal still owe over £200M to their new stadium, so they are not debt free. What they do have is a mortgage on it at roughly £20M a year repayment and with the revenue growth that should be easily covered.

Also, the war chest is there, but its not all for player purchases. Some must be kept as a guarantee against things such as the stadium mortgage amongst other things, which is why the figures for the war chest were between £70M and £80M and not the full £150M cash reserve they have.

Now, as for their revenue, look for that to increase between, £80M - £100M each year, as the Emirates deal has been renewed, the rumoured Puma deal kicks in and the new tv deal kicks in, as well as secondary sponsorships coming through quite quickly now. As the club basically breaks even now, this will be where the make up of transfer money comes from.

The wage bill was quite high and very inefficient because of Arsenes failed policy, which is the reason why there was a big summer cull, which should save about £500k a week. Also though, with the expected revenue growth, if they keep the wages to turnover at a conservative 60%, (I believe City's at last count was 87%?), they could afford a wage bill of£190M a year as it stands.

This is the point now where the Arsenal board have been aiming to get to, it's the point they've been telling the fans that they will properly compete, and was the reason why there was so much discontentment before the Ozil signing as they thought they were just getting fed the same line they had been hearing for 6 years. It's now up to Wenger and the board to deliver and the players, if not this year, then in the next year or two for definite. There will be no more restricted finance excuses then, they playing field will have levelled out if not totally then much more significantly.
 
they are bang at it already

wish we could say the same

could be theirs to lose by crimbo
 
afc16 said:
im not an accountant and don't know the ins and outs of all the figures but ill try my best.

also none of the following is a dig at the way city have done anything. its simply not the way i'd like to do it myself however i understand why city had to do it.

we wanted to increase our revenues so we could compete with the big boys (arsenal were and are one of the biggest clubs in the world but even now we are not on the same level as utd barca madrid bayern etc). we didn't want nor had a sugar daddy back in those days (10 years ago).

the key to becoming a bigger club and all the revenues that come with it was a new stadium.

to finance it, we did what any sensible person would do when taking out a mortgage for their house, which is to try and reduce the amount we needed to borrow by putting down as big a deposit as possible.

to do this we had to tie ourselves into long term deals that were far less lucrative, in order to get the money up-front. both nike and emirates paid us less money over the 8 year deal in return for giving us most of the money up front.

on the up-side it meant we had a smaller mortgage.

on the downside it meant we had to watch clubs like utd city liverpool chelsea agree lucrative deals while we had to sit here stuck with poor deals signed 8 years ago. while clubs like utd and city were making £25m a year just from shirt sponsorship, we were making less then £10m.

that is why the accounts for the last few years appear so poor.

those 8 year deals run out over the next year or so.

our new deals that are signed will be amongst the biggest in europe (puma apparently £30m a year, biggest in the league).

this is the point arsenal were waiting for - get through the 8 years where we knew we wouldn't have much money, try to stay in champions league to keep revenues as high as possible. then when those 8 years are done, (whilst it doesn't mean we wont have any debt) it does mean we will be in a much stronger position to negotiate new deals, which allows us to purchase players like ozil for £42m CASH.

what we have seen with ozil is something we'll regularly be able to do now and in the foreseeable future - purchase the top players even if they cost £40-£50m.

you only have to look at clubs like spurs and liverpool, who would give there right arm and leg to have a new stadium. they have tried and completely failed due to not only the complexity of it all but also the cost. and the fact that it would restrict them financially for a long time. we have managed to do that.

there isn't many clubs in england apart from maybe utd who wouldn't love to be able to do what we've done, but for one reason or another they can't.
What your post conspicuously avoids is the fact that your key role in manipulating the footballing financial landscape in your favour, both domestically and in Europe, was the key enabling factor in effectuating your move to the Emirates.

From N5 1FL to N5 1BU via G14.
 
Oh, and further to my post, it shows how important. Champions League qualification was to Arsenal, without which they would have made losses some years. Like it or not an FA Cup win or a Capital Cup win wouldn't have made up for the impact felt both on and off the park (see Liverpool).

gordondaviesmoustache said:
What your post conspicuously avoids is the fact that your key role in manipulating the footballing financial landscape in your favour, both domestically and in Europe, was the key enabling factor in effectuating your move to the Emirates.

From N5 1FL to N5 1BU via G14.

It depends on how you look at it, some folk prefer the premiership, some folk prefer the old school football, some folk like the Champions league some prefer the old European Cup. Is it elitist now, unfortunately most defiantly. However, especially in the early days of conception of the EPL if you managed the club properly and added wisely you could challenge the top, (teams like Newcastle and Leeds showed this, Arsenal didn't really perform until Wenger came along).

Where do you think Man City would be if the status quo had remained the same, because as much as there was to admire about your club, shrewd management was never top of the list back then. Would you swap your glory for old school football?
 
People keep talking about a lack of depth but it's not really the case. Bar the striker position where we need another body

GK: Szczesny, Fabianski, Viviano

RB: Sagna, Jenkinson
CB: Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Sagna covers as 4th option.
LB: Gibbs, Monreal

CM: Ramsey, Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere(and he can play AM, LW)
AM: Ozil, Rosicky

RW: Walcott, Chamberlain, now Gnabry
LW: Cazorla(also AM), Podolski

ST: Giroud..........Walcott/Podolski would fill in, then Bendtner.

Need another 2 quality signings to really push us on. For the most part we have two players for every position, just horrible luck with injuries so far.
 
jlc09 said:
People keep talking about a lack of depth but it's not really the case. Bar the striker position where we need another body

GK: Szczesny, Fabianski, Viviano

RB: Sagna, Jenkinson
CB: Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Sagna covers as 4th option.
LB: Gibbs, Monreal

CM: Ramsey, Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere(and he can play AM, LW)
AM: Ozil, Rosicky

RW: Walcott, Chamberlain, now Gnabry
LW: Cazorla(also AM), Podolski

ST: Giroud..........Walcott/Podolski would fill in, then Bendtner.

Need another 2 quality signings to really push us on. For the most part we have two players for every position, just horrible luck with injuries so far.
Yup agreed mate...You guys have been brilliant so far.. Striker in Jan would be perfect
 
neel said:
jlc09 said:
People keep talking about a lack of depth but it's not really the case. Bar the striker position where we need another body

GK: Szczesny, Fabianski, Viviano

RB: Sagna, Jenkinson
CB: Mertesacker, Koscielny, Vermaelen, Sagna covers as 4th option.
LB: Gibbs, Monreal

CM: Ramsey, Arteta, Flamini, Wilshere(and he can play AM, LW)
AM: Ozil, Rosicky

RW: Walcott, Chamberlain, now Gnabry
LW: Cazorla(also AM), Podolski

ST: Giroud..........Walcott/Podolski would fill in, then Bendtner.

Need another 2 quality signings to really push us on. For the most part we have two players for every position, just horrible luck with injuries so far.
Yup agreed mate...You guys have been brilliant so far.. Striker in Jan would be perfect
Yea. Their good run of luck I think.
 
GunnerGer said:
Oh, and further to my post, it shows how important. Champions League qualification was to Arsenal, without which they would have made losses some years. Like it or not an FA Cup win or a Capital Cup win wouldn't have made up for the impact felt both on and off the park (see Liverpool).

gordondaviesmoustache said:
What your post conspicuously avoids is the fact that your key role in manipulating the footballing financial landscape in your favour, both domestically and in Europe, was the key enabling factor in effectuating your move to the Emirates.

From N5 1FL to N5 1BU via G14.

It depends on how you look at it, some folk prefer the premiership, some folk prefer the old school football, some folk like the Champions league some prefer the old European Cup. Is it elitist now, unfortunately most defiantly. However, especially in the early days of conception of the EPL if you managed the club properly and added wisely you could challenge the top, (teams like Newcastle and Leeds showed this, Arsenal didn't really perform until Wenger came along).

Where do you think Man City would be if the status quo had remained the same, because as much as there was to admire about your club, shrewd management was never top of the list back then. Would you swap your glory for old school football?
I think you are missing the point I am making. I certainly harbour no desire to return to the old days both in terms of City or wider football. I think overall the Premier League has been a positive thing and I also believe that any suggestion that the European Cup was better or harder to win than the Champions League is preposterous, so I'm perfectly happy where we currently find ourselves and overall I like contemporary football. In that sense I differ from many City fans.

My point, was that Arsenal were at the vanguard of changing finances in football. They were a prominent force in changing the rules in the late 80's about how the TV money was divvied up and a few years later in setting up the Premier League. This was done with the express intention of enriching themselves at others' expense. They were then involved in the G14 Group of clubs which were, once again, motivated by self-interest, and most probably threatened UEFA with a breakaway scenario if their CL financial demands were not met.

It was these steps, consciously undertaken with craft and guile, that enabled what was a mid-ranking First Division club in the 50's, 60's, 70's and early 80's (crowds, trophies) to suddenly start gorging themselves on the Champions League money which they had, in fact, steered towards themselves. It was this money, rather than any skillfully devised real estate strategy that enabled your club to live where it does today.

I don't mind any of this, as it happens. Most organisations will be motivated by self-interest. It is the nature of human affairs.

What I take issue with is Arsenal fans viewing this strategic master-plan, as well as (as you allude to) the serendipity and happenstance of being a prominent footballing force in the early 90's, as some sort of moralistic trump card over other clubs who have followed in their club's wake - or "doing it the right way" as we hear with tiresome predictability from many of your entitled fans whose grasp of your club's history is of the pick 'n mix variety.
 
I've got to say, while nothing was ever won in September, I think it's theirs to lose. Made some really smart buys and could come out and win it this season. Not exactly thrilled if we don't, but anybody but the rags.
 
Ozil was nothing special yesterday, but has been good. But I think Ramsey's improvement has been a bigger influence than Ozil so far. It's an old cliché, but Ramsey has been like a new signing as he's gone from average to excellent overnight. I wonder if this form will sustain or if it's just a purple patch...
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
GunnerGer said:
Oh, and further to my post, it shows how important. Champions League qualification was to Arsenal, without which they would have made losses some years. Like it or not an FA Cup win or a Capital Cup win wouldn't have made up for the impact felt both on and off the park (see Liverpool).

gordondaviesmoustache said:
What your post conspicuously avoids is the fact that your key role in manipulating the footballing financial landscape in your favour, both domestically and in Europe, was the key enabling factor in effectuating your move to the Emirates.

From N5 1FL to N5 1BU via G14.

It depends on how you look at it, some folk prefer the premiership, some folk prefer the old school football, some folk like the Champions league some prefer the old European Cup. Is it elitist now, unfortunately most defiantly. However, especially in the early days of conception of the EPL if you managed the club properly and added wisely you could challenge the top, (teams like Newcastle and Leeds showed this, Arsenal didn't really perform until Wenger came along).

Where do you think Man City would be if the status quo had remained the same, because as much as there was to admire about your club, shrewd management was never top of the list back then. Would you swap your glory for old school football?
I think you are missing the point I am making. I certainly harbour no desire to return to the old days both in terms of City or wider football. I think overall the Premier League has been a positive thing and I also believe that any suggestion that the European Cup was better or harder to win than the Champions League is preposterous, so I'm perfectly happy where we currently find ourselves and overall I like contemporary football. In that sense I differ from many City fans.

My point, was that Arsenal were at the vanguard of changing finances in football. They were a prominent force in changing the rules in the late 80's about how the TV money was divvied up and a few years later in setting up the Premier League. This was done with the express intention of enriching themselves at others' expense. They were then involved in the G14 Group of clubs which were, once again, motivated by self-interest, and most probably threatened UEFA with a breakaway scenario if their CL financial demands were not met.

It was these steps, consciously undertaken with craft and guile, that enabled what was a mid-ranking First Division club in the 50's, 60's, 70's and early 80's (crowds, trophies) to suddenly start gorging themselves on the Champions League money which they had, in fact, steered towards themselves. It was this money, rather than any skillfully devised real estate strategy that enabled your club to live where it does today.

I don't mind any of this, as it happens. Most organisations will be motivated by self-interest. It is the nature of human affairs.

What I take issue with is Arsenal fans viewing this strategic master-plan, as well as (as you allude to) the serendipity and happenstance of being a prominent footballing force in the early 90's, as some sort of moralistic trump card over other clubs who have followed in their club's wake - or "doing it the right way" as we hear with tiresome predictability from many of your entitled fans whose grasp of your club's history is of the pick 'n mix variety.
Well said GDM spot on,I can sum it up in two words.Hypocritical or Deluded !
 
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