Arsenal Thread 2013/14

[supercrystal7]

Even a 40 million pound player needs time to settle into a new league

Why?

I reject the entire premise of your argument.

Because a big price tag does not make you superhuman. The Premiership is more physical and you get away with a lot more here than in other countries. The game is very fast paced, teams don't give up when they are losing and there are more matches than Ozil is used to. Then you throw in the usual things like players adjusting to the team mate, the change in environment, coaching etc and that's why it takes time.

Many of the greatest foreign players the Premiership has seen like Bergkamp, Henry, Drogba, Pires, etc took time to settle. Mata has moved to United for a similar fee, doe less and still has received not a fraction of the criticism. The media have picked on something and people are jumping on it.

 

[Damocles]

Even a 40 million pound player needs time to settle into a new league

Why?

I reject the entire premise of your argument.

Because a big price tag does not make you superhuman. The Premiership is more physical and you get away with a lot more here than in other countries. The game is very fast paced, teams don't give up when they are losing and there are more matches than Ozil is used to. Then you throw in the usual things like players adjusting to the team mate, the change in environment, coaching etc and that's why it takes time.

Many of the greatest foreign players the Premiership has seen like Bergkamp, Henry, Drogba, Pires, etc took time to settle. Mata has moved to United for a similar fee, doe less and still has received not a fraction of the criticism. The media have picked on something and people are jumping on it.

I still reject that premise.

Ozil has played for many years in Germany, in Spain, in the Champions League and at international level. The idea that he cannot adapt to slight differences in leagues or mentality means he either isn't good enough to pay £40m for or your point is incorrect. David Silva walked into our league and blew everybody away. Same with Robinho. Same with Negredo and Navas when they came here.

When comparing people like Bergkamp and Henry you are talking about the differences in leagues 10 or 20 years ago and this is a false argument as football has totally changed and become much closer in that time.

 

[supercrystal7]

Why?

I reject the entire premise of your argument.

Because a big price tag does not make you superhuman. The Premiership is more physical and you get away with a lot more here than in other countries. The game is very fast paced, teams don't give up when they are losing and there are more matches than Ozil is used to. Then you throw in the usual things like players adjusting to the team mate, the change in environment, coaching etc and that's why it takes time.

Many of the greatest foreign players the Premiership has seen like Bergkamp, Henry, Drogba, Pires, etc took time to settle. Mata has moved to United for a similar fee, doe less and still has received not a fraction of the criticism. The media have picked on something and people are jumping on it.

I still reject that premise.

Ozil has played for many years in Germany, in Spain, in the Champions League and at international level. The idea that he cannot adapt to slight differences in leagues or mentality means he either isn't good enough to pay £40m for or your point is incorrect. David Silva walked into our league and blew everybody away. Same with Robinho. Same with Negredo and Navas when they came here.

When comparing people like Bergkamp and Henry you are talking about the differences in leagues 10 or 20 years ago and this is a false argument as football has totally changed and become much closer in that time.

I am not saying Ozil won't adapt, I expect much better next season. I am saying give him time. Silva did not blow the league away initially. If Arsenal get fourth and win the FA Cup then Ozil would have already matched Silva' achievement in the first season and in a significantly worse team. Stats are not everything, but I would also bet that by the end of the season Ozil will have better stats than Silva had in his first year.

The bias when comparing Negredo and Nava's impact is quite telling. Ozil's poor form has been completely blown out of proportion by some people. He had a poor few weeks when he was tired, but until January he was good. Arsenal were top of the league, had got through the toughest group in the CL and still inn the cup.

As for the difficulty in adapting it seems like most managers disagree with you including Mancini.

 

[City Raider]

Cazorla: "I learnt a lot from of all of the managers I have played for, but if I had to choose one it would be Pellegrini."

 

[adrianr]

Because a big price tag does not make you superhuman. The Premiership is more physical and you get away with a lot more here than in other countries. The game is very fast paced, teams don't give up when they are losing and there are more matches than Ozil is used to. Then you throw in the usual things like players adjusting to the team mate, the change in environment, coaching etc and that's why it takes time.

Many of the greatest foreign players the Premiership has seen like Bergkamp, Henry, Drogba, Pires, etc took time to settle. Mata has moved to United for a similar fee, doe less and still has received not a fraction of the criticism. The media have picked on something and people are jumping on it.

I still reject that premise.

Ozil has played for many years in Germany, in Spain, in the Champions League and at international level. The idea that he cannot adapt to slight differences in leagues or mentality means he either isn't good enough to pay £40m for or your point is incorrect. David Silva walked into our league and blew everybody away. Same with Robinho. Same with Negredo and Navas when they came here.

When comparing people like Bergkamp and Henry you are talking about the differences in leagues 10 or 20 years ago and this is a false argument as football has totally changed and become much closer in that time.

I am not saying Ozil won't adapt, I expect much better next season. I am saying give him time. Silva did not blow the league away initially. If Arsenal get fourth and win the FA Cup then Ozil would have already matched Silva' achievement in the first season and in a significantly worse team. Stats are not everything, but I would also bet that by the end of the season Ozil will have better stats than Silva had in his first year.

The bias when comparing Negredo and Nava's impact is quite telling. Ozil's poor form has been completely blown out of proportion by some people. He had a poor few weeks when he was tired, but until January he was good. Arsenal were top of the league, had got through the toughest group in the CL and still inn the cup.

As for the difficulty in adapting it seems like most managers disagree with you including Mancini.

Significantly worse team?! Pull the other one, we still had Patrick Vieira as a PLAYER!

And we got third and the FA Cup thank you very much ;)

 

[supercrystal7]

I still reject that premise.

Ozil has played for many years in Germany, in Spain, in the Champions League and at international level. The idea that he cannot adapt to slight differences in leagues or mentality means he either isn't good enough to pay £40m for or your point is incorrect. David Silva walked into our league and blew everybody away. Same with Robinho. Same with Negredo and Navas when they came here.

When comparing people like Bergkamp and Henry you are talking about the differences in leagues 10 or 20 years ago and this is a false argument as football has totally changed and become much closer in that time.

I am not saying Ozil won't adapt, I expect much better next season. I am saying give him time. Silva did not blow the league away initially. If Arsenal get fourth and win the FA Cup then Ozil would have already matched Silva' achievement in the first season and in a significantly worse team. Stats are not everything, but I would also bet that by the end of the season Ozil will have better stats than Silva had in his first year.

The bias when comparing Negredo and Nava's impact is quite telling. Ozil's poor form has been completely blown out of proportion by some people. He had a poor few weeks when he was tired, but until January he was good. Arsenal were top of the league, had got through the toughest group in the CL and still inn the cup.

As for the difficulty in adapting it seems like most managers disagree with you including Mancini.

Significantly worse team?! Pull the other one, we still had Patrick Vieira as a PLAYER!

And we got third and the FA Cup thank you very much ;)

Fair enough, but they also got out of an equally difficult CL group as yours.

You had Vieria, but you also had Yaya, Kompany, Tevez, Dzeko, Adebayor, Barry, Balotelli and De Jong. I have always maintained that the Arsenal sqaud is not that great. Do you think the Arsenal team have players of the quality I listed? They have Ramsey, Walcott and Wilshere.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Please go and find them then. Your argument was that the stats meant Tevez and Drogba had done well, which they don't and nor did the fans of the club agree they had been great.

Tevez, Drogba and Macherano were not talents for the future like Ronaldo, Robben or Oscar. They had all had breakthrough seasons prior to the move.

Ozil has been good for more than half a season and his performance is closer to that of Negredo, except Ozil has played more football. A lot of the Arsenal fans that have been giving him stick have changed their mind after seeing the team without him. 1/5 wins since he got injured.

Negredo has played in 7 more games than Ozil this season.

The correlation with Arsenal's recent form and Ozil being out is also rather crude as anyone with any sense knows there is so much more to it than just Ozil being out.

For the money, he's been wank.

A 40m player should be running games and winning games.

A luxury player if ever there was one.

Having said that, someone on another club's form at 3.13 am will probably find some bizarre way of arguing back.

More games, but how many more minutes? We can all use stats to influence things. Ozil also missed preseason with Arsenal.

The correlation is there and any Arsenal fan will tell you that is part of the reason. Arsenal's problems do much deeper, but that does not take away the significance of Ozil's injury.

Even a 40 million pound player needs time to settle into a new league and should be judged when he has had a proper season, but then again when it comes to football matters, I don't expect you to have much of a clue.[/quote]

Didn't seem to bother Aguero. Scored 2 in his first ever premiership game coming on as a sub (zero chance to 'get used to' things), scored 2 great goals and provided 1 assist for Silva. He the scored a hat trick in only his 3rd game. He scored 30 goals that season and won us the title as we all know in the Aguerrroooo moment.

What what what.

 

[adrianr]

I am not saying Ozil won't adapt, I expect much better next season. I am saying give him time. Silva did not blow the league away initially. If Arsenal get fourth and win the FA Cup then Ozil would have already matched Silva' achievement in the first season and in a significantly worse team. Stats are not everything, but I would also bet that by the end of the season Ozil will have better stats than Silva had in his first year.

The bias when comparing Negredo and Nava's impact is quite telling. Ozil's poor form has been completely blown out of proportion by some people. He had a poor few weeks when he was tired, but until January he was good. Arsenal were top of the league, had got through the toughest group in the CL and still inn the cup.

As for the difficulty in adapting it seems like most managers disagree with you including Mancini.

Significantly worse team?! Pull the other one, we still had Patrick Vieira as a PLAYER!

And we got third and the FA Cup thank you very much ;)

Fair enough, but they also got out of an equally difficult CL group as yours.

You had Vieria, but you also had Yaya, Kompany, Tevez, Dzeko, Adebayor, Barry, Balotelli and De Jong. I have always maintained that the Arsenal sqaud is not that great. Do you think the Arsenal team have players of the quality I listed? They have Ramsey, Walcott and Wilshere.

Just listing the players we had is a perfect illustration of the point. Forgivable as you can't watch every team all of the time, but at the time Arsenal were a far more established top side than we were. They had the experience of juggling top level European football and third place with the FA cup was an over acheivement.

That was a team still very much in the building stages. Hangovers from Hughes, new signings from Mancini, all the while trying to instill a winning mentality from a club that had as good as none. Silva new, Yaya new, Balotelli new, Milner new, Kolarov new, Dzeko only came in January.. Barry, Adebayor and Tevez only came the season before. It was complete upheaval from a yoyo club to 4th place contenders. There's no way on gods green earth the Arsenal side Ozil joined was significantly worse than the City Silva joined.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

We all know how this is going to end unfortunately.

 

[Stoned Rose]

Significantly worse team?! Pull the other one, we still had Patrick Vieira as a PLAYER!

And we got third and the FA Cup thank you very much ;)

Fair enough, but they also got out of an equally difficult CL group as yours.

You had Vieria, but you also had Yaya, Kompany, Tevez, Dzeko, Adebayor, Barry, Balotelli and De Jong. I have always maintained that the Arsenal sqaud is not that great. Do you think the Arsenal team have players of the quality I listed? They have Ramsey, Walcott and Wilshere.

Just listing the players we had is a perfect illustration of the point. Forgivable as you can't watch every team all of the time, but at the time Arsenal were a far more established top side than we were. They had the experience of juggling top level European football and third place with the FA cup was an over acheivement.

That was a team still very much in the building stages. Hangovers from Hughes, new signings from Mancini, all the while trying to instill a winning mentality from a club that had as good as none. Silva new, Yaya new, Balotelli new, Milner new, Kolarov new, Dzeko only came in January.. Barry, Adebayor and Tevez only came the season before. It was complete upheaval from a yoyo club to 4th place contenders. There's no way on gods green earth the Arsenal side Ozil joined was significantly worse than the City Silva joined.

There's no way on gods green earth the Arsenal side Ozil joined was significantly worse than the City Silva joined.

Yes Adrianr.

Another one of Crystal Meth's greatest moments on Bluemoon.