Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[i kne albert davy]

That's right you don't.

No perhaps no but unlike you I did know the CAA governed British Aviation though.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Relying on lawyers and drug companies to ensure drugs are safe.
No regulatory authority.
Sweet Jesus.

Maybe we could give the job to European egg inspectors.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Can I ask the socialists on here, that are in favour of remaining in the EU, what they wish to achieve by remaining?

Are you optimistic that one day the EU will turn into a socialist utopia and ditch the international capitalist set up it has now?

It's not a loaded question, I'm keen to hear what some of you have to say.

Personally I'm quite fond of prosperity, and not a big fan of economic collapse.

Call me Mr Selfish.

 

[smudgedj]

Personally I'm quite fond of prosperity, and not a big fan of economic collapse.

Call me Mr Selfish.

Economy hasn't collapsed.

11.4% increase in global trade.

Now after me

Ah-One, Ah-Two!:

Don't blame it on the sunshine.
Don't blame it on the moonlight.
Don't blame it on the good times.
Blame it on Brexit.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Economy hasn't collapsed.

11.4% increase in global trade.

Now after me

Ah-One, Ah-Two!:

Don't blame it on the sunshine.
Don't blame it on the moonlight.
Don't blame it on the good times.
Blame it on Brexit.

For God's sake.

You idiots still don't realise what you've done, even now.

But you will. How did it come to this, both here and in the US?

 

[smudgedj]

For God's sake.

You idiots still don't realise what you've done, even now.

But you will. How did it come to this, both here and in the US?

 

[Len Rum]

I didn't say we need to leave "this morning". My point was that we are logically faced with only two choices. Stay and forget the whole thing or leave now.

You just used the adverb 'now' again.
So,this evening?

 

[JWBlueman]

Can I ask the socialists on here, that are in favour of remaining in the EU, what they wish to achieve by remaining?

Are you optimistic that one day the EU will turn into a socialist utopia and ditch the international capitalist set up it has now?

It's not a loaded question, I'm keen to hear what some of you have to say.

There are NO socialists in favour of remaining in the EU. It's impossible.

There are thousands of middle class, dreadlocks-on-my-gapyear- types though. The sort who buy the big issue and claim this makes them caring about the plight of the weakest in society whilst they hide from problems behind their privet hedge in their 250k house in leafy suburbia.

Ask them to leave the EU though so we can begin the long fight for a country governed by a party that believes in equality and is prepared to legislate for it and they run for the hills quicker than you can say "Goldman Sachs ".

Or 'Bono's' and 'Geldof's' I call them.

 

[Manc in London]

There are NO socialists in favour of remaining in the EU. It's impossible.

.

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

[Didsbury Dave]

How do you come to that conclusion?

Because he is Citizen Smith. Urban fucking Keyboard Warlord.

 

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

There are NO socialists in favour of remaining in the EU. It's impossible.

There are thousands of middle class, dreadlocks-on-my-gapyear- types though. The sort who buy the big issue and claim this makes them caring about the plight of the weakest in society whilst they hide from problems behind their privet hedge in their 250k house in leafy suburbia.

Ask them to leave the EU though so we can begin the long fight for a country governed by a party that believes in equality and is prepared to legislate for it and they run for the hills quicker than you can say "Goldman Sachs ".

Or 'Bono's' and 'Geldof's' I call them.

Im one, and you sound very shallow

 

[bboy]

For God's sake.

You idiots still don't realise what you've done, even now.

But you will. How did it come to this, both here and in the US?

I've tangled with you many a time, and used to think you had a nice line in hyperbole. And here we are, and you sound every bit as desparate as I feel. I've just had the millionth row with yet another person who was probably reasonable five years ago, but now lives in an utterly alternative reality.

Here's the stiffy;

1. Banking crash. No fucker went to jail. Somehow we take it out on each other, or better yet, those who are just a little bit different.

2. Recent research has explored the links between personality traits (agreeableness, extroversion, conscienciousness, neuroticism, openness) and political orientation. After Obama's succesful 'viral' campaign, Massive amounts of cash were poured into private analysis and research on how to harness this via the internet. The upshot is, if separate certain personality types, you can push their buttons and they'll never know, because they've all got the same combination of traits which interact within the person to make their intellect, emotion and reason work a certain way that means they literally can't hear conceive of anything else apart from every other person with any sense at all sharing their exact point of view. Feed 'em what they need to keep this mindset intact, and they'll eat it by the troughful. They honestly won't be able to distinguish fact from fantasy.

3. Istry. Nothing existed before a couple of years ago. World war what? Balkans who? Red cap socialism is apparently a new idea, a whole new vision of a bright future, not an inadequate response to a world that disappeared before our parents were born. And nationalism is truth. Anything else is a failure of courage to tell the truth.

4. Apparently the world was worse than ever a couple of years ago. Nothing was working. The third and fourth world wars had taken their toll on us all. We were reduced to starvation, eating the wallpaper paste, dying of simple infections. our daughters had to walk the streets, and you couldn't step outside your house without gangs of mounted-vagabonds arracking you. Something HAD to be done.

Alternatively, once certain parties got their hands on the information explaining how to turn us against each other, they saw how it would work to their advantage.

I feel like I'm wearing a tin hat. I have to keep reminding myself that they are in cloud cuckoo land, not me. The last time I felt so despairing as to the idiocy of my country and Americans was when Dubbya took the mike and said, you're either with us, or you're against us, and otherwise normal people dropped all healthy cynicism and took the WMD stuff at face value. Maybe they got as fucked up by it as I did, and this is their way of dealing with it.

Their brains have been split right down the middle. Everything has to be assigned an absolute value, and a clear, unambiguous name. It's either 100% left or 100% right. Socialist or Nationalist. Stand very still whilst they decide which of the two boxes you are going in. Ok, in now? Not clear enough for them I;m afraid. Now they have decided that you lived in that particular box all your life, it defines everything you ever said, thought, wished for or did, you agree with everyone else in that box on everything, and disagree with the occupants of the other box on everything. Stop saying otherwise.

Nothing is allowed to have any nuance, that would only confuse the situation. No hybrids, compromises or consensus. No doubt. Black or White. Choose your side.

Maybe I'm wrong, the world has never been worse than it was a couple of years ago and this country IS a piece of shit, one of the worst going, always has been- something had to be done to right the wrongs caused by hundreds of years worshiping the false gods of tradition, reason, tolerance of opposing views, circumspection and moderation with regard to ideology. And worst of all, our disastrous pragmatic streak. Our refusal to take the race-bait or drink the commie cool-aid. It had to stop. Had to.

 

[Paul_Powers_Tash]

You just used the adverb 'now' again.
So,this evening?

You didn't read my reply did you. Tomorrow morning, lunchtime, evening or two years tomorrow morning, lunchtime or evening, it makes no difference. No matter the timescale there will be no meaningful progress towards an orderly Brexit. The whole concept is a falsehood, a pretence, a lie. There will be no deal, no handshake, no walk away as old friends.

If we understand that then why delay?

 

[Paul_Powers_Tash]

For God's sake.

You idiots still don't realise what you've done, even now.

But you will. How did it come to this, both here and in the US?

The EU has done a great job in bringing prosperity to Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, France and every other country in the club. Edit. The EU has done a great job in increasing prosperity in Germany.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Page 397, Article 50 Brexit Negotiations.
We'll revisit this at a later date.

We'll all revisit this at a later date, that's the problem.

 

[Damocles]

The EU has done a great job in bringing prosperity to Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy, France and every other country in the club. Edit. The EU has done a great job in increasing prosperity in Germany.

The EU has created the largest single market in the history of the planet, ensured the interconnectedness of European economies which has stopped 1300 years of European bloodshed and are literally the only people on Earth who will take on massive corporations such as Google, Microsoft, Amazon and Facebook and force them to stop anti-competitive practices.

Oh and its the biggest infrastructure investment authority on Earth too.

 

[Len Rum]

You didn't read my reply did you. Tomorrow morning, lunchtime, evening or two years tomorrow morning, lunchtime or evening, it makes no difference. No matter the timescale there will be no meaningful progress towards an orderly Brexit. The whole concept is a falsehood, a pretence, a lie. There will be no deal, no handshake, no walk away as old friends.

If we understand that then why delay?

Because before we leave there's a lot of stuff that needs sorting out.
The Eu repeal bill has to be passed, transferring EU law ( modified where appropriate) into British law.
Independent UK Regulatory bodies have to be set in place of those where we are a member of EU bodies. These cover things like drug safety.
And then there's the small matter of our customs border with the EU including the Irish border.
These are a few of the major issues, there will be thousands of others.
It's not possible to be a member of an organisation like the EU for 45 years and then leave without first disentangling ourselves from UK / EU laws,rules and regulations otherwise there would be total chaos.
That's why Article 50 has a two year time frame to do exactly that ( it was never meant to determine future trading arrangements).
Hence we can't leave NOW, that is why there is a delay until March2019. Even the most hard line Brexiters accept this.
Why can't you?

 

[cibaman]

Because before we leave there's a lot of stuff that needs sorting out.
The Eu repeal bill has to be passed, transferring EU law ( modified where appropriate) into British law.
Independent UK Regulatory bodies have to be set in place of those where we are a member of EU bodies. These cover things like drug safety.
And then there's the small matter of our customs border with the EU including the Irish border.
These are a few of the major issues, there will be thousands of others.
It's not possible to be a member of an organisation like the EU for 45 years and then leave without first disentangling ourselves from UK / EU laws,rules and regulations otherwise there would be total chaos.
That's why Article 50 has a two year time frame to do exactly that ( it was never meant to determine future trading arrangements).
Hence we can't leave NOW, that is why there is a delay until March2019. Even the most hard line Brexiters accept this.
Why can't you?

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a workable solution to the Irish border question that would be acceptable to all parties

 

[Didsbury Dave]

I've tangled with you many a time, and used to think you had a nice line in hyperbole. And here we are, and you sound every bit as desparate as I feel. I've just had the millionth row with yet another person who was probably reasonable five years ago, but now lives in an utterly alternative reality.

Here's the stiffy;

1. Banking crash. No fucker went to jail. Somehow we take it out on each other, or better yet, those who are just a little bit different.

2. Recent research has explored the links between personality traits (agreeableness, extroversion, conscienciousness, neuroticism, openness) and political orientation. After Obama's succesful 'viral' campaign, Massive amounts of cash were poured into private analysis and research on how to harness this via the internet. The upshot is, if separate certain personality types, you can push their buttons and they'll never know, because they've all got the same combination of traits which interact within the person to make their intellect, emotion and reason work a certain way that means they literally can't hear conceive of anything else apart from every other person with any sense at all sharing their exact point of view. Feed 'em what they need to keep this mindset intact, and they'll eat it by the troughful. They honestly won't be able to distinguish fact from fantasy.

3. Istry. Nothing existed before a couple of years ago. World war what? Balkans who? Red cap socialism is apparently a new idea, a whole new vision of a bright future, not an inadequate response to a world that disappeared before our parents were born. And nationalism is truth. Anything else is a failure of courage to tell the truth.

4. Apparently the world was worse than ever a couple of years ago. Nothing was working. The third and fourth world wars had taken their toll on us all. We were reduced to starvation, eating the wallpaper paste, dying of simple infections. our daughters had to walk the streets, and you couldn't step outside your house without gangs of mounted-vagabonds arracking you. Something HAD to be done.

Alternatively, once certain parties got their hands on the information explaining how to turn us against each other, they saw how it would work to their advantage.

I feel like I'm wearing a tin hat. I have to keep reminding myself that they are in cloud cuckoo land, not me. The last time I felt so despairing as to the idiocy of my country and Americans was when Dubbya took the mike and said, you're either with us, or you're against us, and otherwise normal people dropped all healthy cynicism and took the WMD stuff at face value. Maybe they got as fucked up by it as I did, and this is their way of dealing with it.

Their brains have been split right down the middle. Everything has to be assigned an absolute value, and a clear, unambiguous name. It's either 100% left or 100% right. Socialist or Nationalist. Stand very still whilst they decide which of the two boxes you are going in. Ok, in now? Not clear enough for them I;m afraid. Now they have decided that you lived in that particular box all your life, it defines everything you ever said, thought, wished for or did, you agree with everyone else in that box on everything, and disagree with the occupants of the other box on everything. Stop saying otherwise.

Nothing is allowed to have any nuance, that would only confuse the situation. No hybrids, compromises or consensus. No doubt. Black or White. Choose your side.

Maybe I'm wrong, the world has never been worse than it was a couple of years ago and this country IS a piece of shit, one of the worst going, always has been- something had to be done to right the wrongs caused by hundreds of years worshiping the false gods of tradition, reason, tolerance of opposing views, circumspection and moderation with regard to ideology. And worst of all, our disastrous pragmatic streak. Our refusal to take the race-bait or drink the commie cool-aid. It had to stop. Had to.

Yes, I feel like that. I always thought in the long run decency, and reasonableness, and intelligence, and common sense would always win the day in countries like ours. Of course things go wrong and mistakes get made and problems occur. I was proud of my country, with all of its foibles, for its liberal nature.

And now I've realised that we, and the USA, are no different to any other country. There are a lot of uninformed people out there, and a lot of daft and selfish and gullible people. And given a certain set of circumstances they can be mobilised into a majority, which can have catostrophic consequences.

I retain hope that Brexit won't happen. The narrative is changing every day as the picture gets darker and darker and darker. But when you're opposing people who's only response to your argument is a silly song or picture, and they have an equal vote to you, you realise it's going to be a battle.

 

[Len Rum]

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with a workable solution to the Irish border question that would be acceptable to all parties

True.
Tories have a glib solution of ANPR and pre registration of approved carriers on major roads.
Trouble is that doesn't cover cars,white van men and unapproved carriers who will have to be checked (at least on a random basis) for smuggling of people or goods, hence the need for border check points.
And then there's the minor roads.