Article 50/Brexit Negotiations

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

he isn't right at all, hes a doom and gloom merchant who has done nothing but moan the entire time. we haven't even left yet or started negotiating........ electorate excluded ? ok so lets just ignore the people then, that would be a brilliant idea.

He's not alone in being one of ex-Westminster doom and gloom merchants. But the most optimistic happy-clappers have toned it down a bit since the election. The possible negotiations were better placed before the election. Now, Johnny Foreigner is gonna screw us even further and our 'negotiators' are not in a position to develop and agree a mutually beneficial deal. It's got 'Billy-no-win' written all over it. I hope I'm totally wrong - won't be the first time! - but the guy from Aston Martin on telly last night was suggesting that the whole thing is floundering around in limbo!

You can't reveal what deal you are aiming for - something that too many have been clamouring for - until you talk with t'other side and see what brass-necked demands they are gonna make. It'll all come out in the wash, one way or the other, but it is a shambles!

 

[Damocles]

I honestly have always thought it should have been a cross-Party commission negotiating the exit personally, but presumed there were reasons that I couldn't work out about why that would be stupid. Seems the idea is picking up steam.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

It's only a shambles because politicians aren't doing what the electorate voted for. The term shambles is being bandied about like the term hard brexit entering into the electorates day to day speak with help from the media. I have just watched an hour of SKY news who paraded one remainer after the other, looks to me like the real undermining has begun in earnest.
The DUP are sworn to a hard brexit (Have to use the term it's there now isn't it?) so at the very least the position of May is strengthened on that count. We have the SNP on one side of the country instigating for a split, we have Irish nationalists on the other wanting a separation of the UK whilst both speaking out of the sides of their mouths about unity.

So we will leave the EU as long as we

Stay in the single market
Stay in the customs union
Keep the free movement of people but lie to the electorate that they will "Look at it".
In effect not leave the EU at all, and I can't see that happening,common sense tells me that even if brexit achieves one of those aims the EU will ensure that what remainers call a hard brexit will happen because I for one don't believe the EU will allow any movement on those EU conditions.

 

[Damocles]

It's only a shambles because politicians aren't doing what the electorate voted for. The term shambles is being bandied about like the term hard brexit entering into the electorates day to day speak with help from the media. I have just watched an hour of SKY news who paraded one remainer after the other, looks to me like the real undermining has begun in earnest.
The DUP are sworn to a hard brexit (Have to use the term it's there now isn't it?) so at the very least the position of May is strengthened on that count. We have the SNP on one side of the country instigating for a split, we have Irish nationalists on the other wanting a separation of the UK whilst both speaking out of the sides of their mouths about unity.

So we will leave the EU as long as we

Stay in the single market
Stay in the customs union
Keep the free movement of people but lie to the electorate that they will "Look at it".
In effect not leave the EU at all, and I can't see that happening,common sense tells me that even if brexit achieves one of those aims the EU will ensure that what remainers call a hard brexit will happen because I for one don't believe the EU will allow any movement on those EU conditions.

It's always been an opinion of mine that people didn't vote to leave the EU which the majority couldn't give a toss about either way, but that the majority voted for the end of freedom of movement. If the Brexit team come back without that we could have a riot on our hands.

It's generally a daft policy of course, ending freedom of movement, but a perfectly understandable one.

The situation is similar to having a spider attacking your face. Others may say that really the problem is the guy throwing spiders at you, but for most people the most immediate, visible and pressing problem is getting the fucking spider off of them. Immigration into working class areas might not be the ultimate problem but it's the most immediate, pressing and visible one that is hurting these communities in terms of competition of labour.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

It's always been an opinion of mine that people didn't vote to leave the EU which the majority couldn't give a toss about either way, but that the majority voted for the end of freedom of movement. If the Brexit team come back without that we could have a riot on our hands.

You're right mate, Corbyn touched on that himself citing it damaged working conditions and enabled corporate greed. If free movement of people is stopped and the govt dig their heels in do you think the EU will say no to access to the single market?

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

It's only a shambles because politicians aren't doing what the electorate voted for.

Well, I'll be a cow's uncle! The skunks sitting in the Members' Bar, or one of them, or several of them, aren't doing what the election charged them to do! The only time politicians listen to the electorate is in the few weeks prior to an election. After they are elected they revert to self-serving mode again.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

Well, I'll be a cow's uncle! The skunks sitting in the Members' Bar, or one of them, or several of them, aren't doing what the election charged them to do! The only time politicians listen to the electorate is in the few weeks prior to an election. After they are elected they revert to self-serving mode again.

Politicians are like that, it's a circle that keeps repeating itself doesn't it?

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

It's only a shambles because politicians aren't doing what the electorate voted for. The term shambles is being bandied about like the term hard brexit entering into the electorates day to day speak with help from the media. I have just watched an hour of SKY news who paraded one remainer after the other, looks to me like the real undermining has begun in earnest.
The DUP are sworn to a hard brexit (Have to use the term it's there now isn't it?) so at the very least the position of May is strengthened on that count. We have the SNP on one side of the country instigating for a split, we have Irish nationalists on the other wanting a separation of the UK whilst both speaking out of the sides of their mouths about unity.

So we will leave the EU as long as we

Stay in the single market
Stay in the customs union
Keep the free movement of people but lie to the electorate that they will "Look at it".
In effect not leave the EU at all, and I can't see that happening,common sense tells me that even if brexit achieves one of those aims the EU will ensure that what remainers call a hard brexit will happen because I for one don't believe the EU will allow any movement on those EU conditions.

I'm getting sick of it as well, they literally just have remainers on now it seems. all morning I've been watching the news and seeing one after another saying we need a soft brexit. In this election brexit was barely even talked about. they are jumping on the bandwagon and trying to force through there opinion and agenda. as you say we may as well just stay in the eu. a ' soft brexit would mean FOM,unable to make trade deals., we have to leave the single market. labour and the conservatives both said they are committed to leaving the single market, so they've just lied to everyone if we dont.

if we dont really leave i think it will have been the biggest stitch up ever. and millions of people will be pissed off, including myself. many of the working class people will feel completely ignored, especially on immigration

 

[geoff clipp]

It's only a shambles because politicians aren't doing what the electorate voted for. The term shambles is being bandied about like the term hard brexit entering into the electorates day to day speak with help from the media. I have just watched an hour of SKY news who paraded one remainer after the other, looks to me like the real undermining has begun in earnest.
The DUP are sworn to a hard brexit (Have to use the term it's there now isn't it?) so at the very least the position of May is strengthened on that count. We have the SNP on one side of the country instigating for a split, we have Irish nationalists on the other wanting a separation of the UK whilst both speaking out of the sides of their mouths about unity.

So we will leave the EU as long as we

Stay in the single market
Stay in the customs union
Keep the free movement of people but lie to the electorate that they will "Look at it".
In effect not leave the EU at all, and I can't see that happening,common sense tells me that even if brexit achieves one of those aims the EU will ensure that what remainers call a hard brexit will happen because I for one don't believe the EU will allow any movement on those EU conditions.

Not sure why you believe the DUP are sworn to a hard Brexit. It's the opposite. They're sworn to a soft border with the Republic of Ireland. They are also completely opposed to being granted any special status in the UK. The only way they can achieve the soft border without having some kind of special status is by staying in the customs union at the very least and potentially the single market too. TBH, their position on Brexit makes very little sense to me as they seem to still want the soft border and all of the subsidies that come with EU membership (no doubt we will be picking up the tab for that now as part of any agreement) but not be in it.

 

[vonkeynotvenky]

Not sure why you believe the DUP are sworn to a hard Brexit. It's the opposite. They're sworn to a soft border with the Republic of Ireland. They are also completely opposed to being granted any special status in the UK. The only way they can achieve the soft border without having some kind of special status is by staying in the customs union at the very least and potentially the single market too. TBH, their position on Brexit makes very little sense to me as they seem to still want the soft border and all of the subsidies that come with EU membership (no doubt we will be picking up the tab for that now as part of any agreement) but not be in it.

Depending on which paper you read the story changes but the DUP were pro brexit and Theresa May can ill afford to ignore the referendum and deliver a no leave which is anything other than a hard brexit. What people mean by a soft brexit is a non brexit which means we remain in the EU, that isn't going to happen.
As Damocles said downstream if the free movement of people and immigration as a whole isn't addressed it will be political suicide for whatever party botches that up.

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news...exit-donation-spent-outside-northern-ireland/

Politicians may connive and change opinion on a whim but make no mistake the EU will not shift on any free movement negotiations and they themselves will in effect force a so called hard brexit.