Assisted dying

[johnny crossan]

No it wouldn't be 'a form of coerciveness'. It would be an adult making their decision based on how they feel about lots of things.

"But the proposed new law has downsides left unresolved by the suggested model of two doctors and a high court judge, not least insufficient protection against pressures, however subtle, on frail and vulnerable people who may feel their lives have become burdensome to others. Already a staggering 375,000 people over 60 in England and Wales are estimated to be victims of abuse every year, and as Dutch ethicist Professor Theo Boer – who changed his position after reviewing thousands of cases – has found, many do feel under pressure to “make way”. An assisted dying law, however well intended, would alter society’s attitude towards elderly, seriously ill and disabled people, even if only subliminally, and I also fear the caring professions would lose something irreplaceable – their position as exclusively caregivers. Add to that the slippery slope with lawmakers, undoubtedly out of compassion, finding the erosion of safeguards and the extension of eligibility hard to resist."

Spending time with people in their final days showed me that we need not assisted dying, but better end-of-life care | Gordon Brown

We can and must improve on our current end-of-life options – ‘Switzerland, suicide or suffering’, says former UK prime minister Gordon Brown

www.theguardian.com

 

[stonerblue]

"But the proposed new law has downsides left unresolved by the suggested model of two doctors and a high court judge, not least insufficient protection against pressures, however subtle, on frail and vulnerable people who may feel their lives have become burdensome to others. Already a staggering 375,000 people over 60 in England and Wales are estimated to be victims of abuse every year, and as Dutch ethicist Professor Theo Boer – who changed his position after reviewing thousands of cases – has found, many do feel under pressure to “make way”. An assisted dying law, however well intended, would alter society’s attitude towards elderly, seriously ill and disabled people, even if only subliminally, and I also fear the caring professions would lose something irreplaceable – their position as exclusively caregivers. Add to that the slippery slope with lawmakers, undoubtedly out of compassion, finding the erosion of safeguards and the extension of eligibility hard to resist."

Spending time with people in their final days showed me that we need not assisted dying, but better end-of-life care | Gordon Brown

We can and must improve on our current end-of-life options – ‘Switzerland, suicide or suffering’, says former UK prime minister Gordon Brown

www.theguardian.com

read that before and doesn't do owt to change mi mind.

 

[mosssideblue]

"But the proposed new law has downsides left unresolved by the suggested model of two doctors and a high court judge, not least insufficient protection against pressures, however subtle, on frail and vulnerable people who may feel their lives have become burdensome to others. Already a staggering 375,000 people over 60 in England and Wales are estimated to be victims of abuse every year, and as Dutch ethicist Professor Theo Boer – who changed his position after reviewing thousands of cases – has found, many do feel under pressure to “make way”. An assisted dying law, however well intended, would alter society’s attitude towards elderly, seriously ill and disabled people, even if only subliminally, and I also fear the caring professions would lose something irreplaceable – their position as exclusively caregivers. Add to that the slippery slope with lawmakers, undoubtedly out of compassion, finding the erosion of safeguards and the extension of eligibility hard to resist."

Spending time with people in their final days showed me that we need not assisted dying, but better end-of-life care | Gordon Brown

We can and must improve on our current end-of-life options – ‘Switzerland, suicide or suffering’, says former UK prime minister Gordon Brown

www.theguardian.com

Allowing someone to determine when they go because of their irreversible and often very painful condition is humane and also (imo), caregiving .

 

[Blue and true]

In a civilized world not to be able to be given a choice of dying a slow painful death or the ability to go out dignified boggles the the mind. Take out the nutters who believe in a made up entity and any sane person would hate to see a loved one suffer. As long as these decisions are made by the person who it pertains to, we have Do Not Rescuitate in place already that have to be done by that person, what is the problem. People deciding to die just to give their loved ones money, well I’d like to think if the relationship is that good the families would have non of it. We don’t let animals we love suffer yet we do to humans, it’s scandalous.

Completely agree. My gran died of cancer and her last few months were unbearable, not just for herself but our family.

I firmly believe if the sufferer is determined to be compos mentis they should have the right to choose.

 

[Blue Maverick]

I worry when I see medical/emergency service professionals use disrespectful terms about people with religious faith they deal with in the course of their work - even if it's on a football forum.

And I dislike policies been made on peoples lives because of some made up entity and people blindingly following it. You can have faith all you want but how about those that won’t let their children have blood transplants because some stupid book says it’s wrong and that child will go to hell! I never stopped giving help to anyone who needed it regardless of who or what they believed in, but if they don’t believe in it let them have a seperate law for them.

 

[N1985]

Bible thumping cunts who believe in fairy tales in disagreement with law shocker.

If you believe in a made up deity that created the earth your opinion is automatically moot.

Such big opinions or abortion and assisted dying when really it should have absolutely fuck all to do with you. Fucking cultists

 

[Pedestrian]

The issue is though, you don’t actually know what the death will be like.

In course of my career I have worked 8-9 years as a Specialist Palliative Care nurse and I have seen people die in a number of different situations.

I have seen Cancer patients who with no pain, are scared they may have it at the end who have wished they could just have an injection who have then had peaceful deaths.

I have seen people up mobilising to the bathroom, drinking etc who have died later that day.

And I have seen numerous frail elderly patients die over a course of a week or so as their body slows down and deteriorates - these are the ones where family struggle with us not artificially feeding them despite the fact they are 80-90+ years old, semi conscious and just coming to their natural end.

They are comfortable but it’s painful for the family who wish they’d hurry up and die - and yes family do say that ( including my own when family have been dying).

Only once have I seen someone battle with extreme pain at the end of life. The number of good deaths I have seen far outweigh the bad.

How does one begin to even presume what death will look like.

You mention in your post the choice of dying a slow painful death or the ability to go out dignified.

How and when do you propose the definite decision that someone will die in pain is made?

People fear pain at EoL. It’s a well known researched fact but you or anyone else can not 100% guarantee that someone with a terminal illness will actually be in pain and nor can it be guaranteed they will die within this 6 month window.

We once had a complaint made that a 6 month prognosis was given and the person was still alive 2.5 years later!

Therefore there is potential for people to take this option out of fear which may not even materialise.

Psychological pain is a different matter but let’s not conflate the two and attempt to rationalise this very important decision on assisted death based on the concept that all people within the terminal phase are in agony. Its simply not true.

There will sadly be people who have witnessed loved ones in pain at EoL - we should not diminish their experiences but we shouldn’t assume that they represent everyone either.

Finally you mention the DNAR having to be done by the person - you are wrong.

DNAR remains the final decision of the medical professional. It should be discussed with the patient and family with the ideal outcome of a careful discussion explaining that treatments would be attempted to treat any reversible issues but that in the event of the heart stopping ( death) it’s not considered in their interests to perform CPR.

It is always hoped with good communication that the reasons for DNAR are understood but the decision is a medical one.

Good informative post. Thanks. Are you a Christian?

 

[Marriedtoablue]

No it wouldn't be 'a form of coerciveness'. It would be an adult making their decision based on how they feel about lots of things.

If a person chooses to end their life due to the concern for others then they are absolutely being coerced into a decision.

If their reason for choosing to end their life is for no other reason than to prevent relatives suffering they are not making that decision for themselves.

This is no different than someone choosing to end their life do their kid can inherit their money sooner - it’s purely based on other peoples needs and not theirs.

 

[johnny crossan]

Bible thumping cunts who believe in fairy tales in disagreement with law shocker.

If you believe in a made up deity that created the earth your opinion is automatically moot.

Such big opinions or abortion and assisted dying when really it should have absolutely fuck all to do with you. Fucking cultists

So Gordon Brown isn't allowed an opinion then?

 

[journolud]

If a person chooses to end their life due to the concern for others then they are absolutely being coerced into a decision.

If their reason for choosing to end their life is for no other reason than to prevent relatives suffering they are not making that decision for themselves.

This is no different than someone choosing to end their life do their kid can inherit their money sooner - it’s purely based on other peoples needs and not theirs.

It might be misguided but isn’t necessarily evidence of coercion, that would imply pressure from family or others rather than making a decision bars on what it’s thought they might want