Attacks in Paris

[worsleyweb]

We need to ask ISIS to please not be so naughty again, and maybe offer them a cuddle?

A cuddle would breach their human rights and could be classed as sexual harassment.

 

[kas_tippler]

 

[plongo]

However, in a poll conducted by YouGov in March 2011 on behalf of the BHA, when asked the census question ‘What is your religion?’, 61% of people in England and Wales ticked a religious box (53.48% Christian and 7.22% other) while 39% ticked ‘No religion’. When the same sample was asked the follow-up question ‘Are you religious?’, only 29% of the same people said ‘Yes’ while 65% said ‘No’, meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious.

Half the Muslims in England and Wales were born there and almost three-quarters (73%) identify themselves as British. Two-thirds of Muslims are ethnically Asian and 8% are white.
The analysis, which aims to provide a comprehensive picture of Muslim demographics in England and Wales, is the first of its kind. It was made possible because 92% of respondents completed a voluntary question on religion in the 2011 census. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/11/muslim-population-england-wales-nearly-doubles-10-years

It is indeed all blurred lines.

Nail on the head here KTL. I remember saying to my (recently departed RIP) Father in Law, himself a devout Methodist, that IMO Britain would be a secular society by 2025 - he was outraged. I believe there is a real sense of disengagement from religion in the world today and many who state their allegiance don't really know why, or have 100% genuine belief, perhaps it's more to do with collective identity and belonging to a pack?
Humans show human instincts, namely a basic Maslow type of attitude, part of which means a need to belong to a society and in have traits in common with others, tribalism at it's most basic.
I found it fascinating and revealing how, when leaving the stadium in Paris last night the people broke into a spontaneous rendition of their National anthem, all very heart warming and brilliant sound bite material for our insatiable media, but why?
Us v them is the most powerful and dangerous thinking in the world today, especially when we don't know who is us and who is them

 

[abu13]

does this include bush and blair ?.

They are every bit as bad.

 

[TCIB]

Attack of the cuddle monster ?

 

[worsleyweb]

Attack of the cuddle monster ?

Looks a bit like Corbyn.

 

[foxy]

I think people are getting fed up with your relentless personal attacks on Corbyn, which are predictable, tedious and just serve to derail threads as well as encourage abuse. So it would be nice if you could practice what you preach regarding personal abuse. And that's me saying it, who's a friend.

No one is stopping you disagreeing with people's ideas, as that's what a forum is for but I'd prefer that you make some positive and constructive contribution to these threads in terms of presenting some ideas of your own.

If ISIS was a recognised military establishment or political party then I'd suggest diplomacy, but they are a cult, like something from Mad Max but worse. You can't wave a white flag and meet for talks, there's no option. If talks were to be attempted it gives ISIS recognition which it does not deserve in any way. I don't think there is one way of defeating ISIS, I think it will take a number of tactics.

One obvious and easy answer is to drone strike ISIS strongholds which we know of but then there's the risk of civilian casualties. I also don't know how much of an impact it will be, there are several ngative possible outcomes. This may kick the hornet's nest and provoke ISIS to carry out further civilian attacks in Europe. It may anger members further giving them the best recruitment tool they need. Learning from recent conflicts in the Middle East whilst ISIS can be destroyed it will probably be replaced with a similar cult.

In an ideal world and what I'd love to see is ISIS being toppled with minimal casualties to innocent civilians and for a democratic regime to be set up in Syria. However, learning from our lessons in Iraq, this will not work. I am not going to be Mr popular with this thought but I think the only realistic solution is to carry out airstrikes and fund local militia to defeat ISIS. Once ISIS has been defeated then for a strong leader to be put in place. I don't agree with the principle but the Middle East is massively different from Europe, there are so many conflicting tribes and wings of Islam. The locals have grown up under leaders who have ruled with an iron rod. I am not suggesting that this should be the future in fact I think the ME should be as democratic and liberal as the West, I just think it will take a century for this to happen.

I do not have an obsession with Corbyn and I don't read the Daily Mail, I can work out from my own findings that he is a danger the national security. I actually watched his interview on the BBC earlier which prompted my comments about him. Today the UK government has given the go ahead for Special Forces and the Police to shoot to kill which I think is a reasonable and realistic tactic to prevent a terror attack. Whilst there's the risk of another Jean Charles de Menezes incident occurring, I don't think there's any other rational approach of tackling a gunman or suicide bomber. Corbyn's approach would involve casualties to innocent citizens, something he doesn't seem too concerned about. He seems awfully concerned over the welfare of ISIS members rather than the safety of our nation.

 

[Ducado]

Not a bad explanation

 

[buzzer1]

Starting to get pretty sick of the clamour to show how sad they are at the events. Some pillock has drove his Piano 400 miles to play "imagine" ffs, could he not have just borrowed one ?
Is it just me that finds this stuff uncouth ? Ok light your candle and make sure the BBC cameras see you Mr arseface but come on.

One fella putting a candle down saw a camera was there when he was getting up and he stopped and got back down and started to stick his bottom lip out.
He was defo getting ready to go before noticing the press camera.

Dunno where i am going with this, just wanted to note my distaste at this type of thing.

Mate its unreal, the clamor for their 2 stinkin' minutes of fame winds me up..it even winds me up with ice bucket challenge and the like, just go and give the charity the cash, quietly and without fuss,oh and without showing the world that you are such a good soul..look at me look at me please just look at meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee:(

 

[bluethrunthru]

Not a bad explanation

As good an explanation as any I have heard elsewhere. The conclusion I would draw from that would be for Cameron rather than push to join in the bombing would be better off keeping us out of the action. That would then leave the UK free from IS sponsored attack? Of course if the theory was flawed he could then have an excuse to try and get involved on the basis that IS were only attacking those who attacked them?