Attacks in Paris

See the non islamic IS have recruited 3 more non islamic thugs to stab a teacher at a Jewish school in Marseille while claiming to be IS. I expect they were Shinto Buddhists.
 
http://www.albawaba.com/news/king-abdullah-ii-calls-upon-muslims-lead-fight-against-terrorism-768666

For info.

In a speech on Sunday, Jordan’s King Abdullah II, denounced extremism, saying that it is “the greatest threat to our region” and called upon Muslims to lead the fight against it.

The speech did not specifically reference the attacks in Paris that killed 129 people, but King Abdullah has condemned them as a “cowardly terrorist act” in previous speeches.

King Abdullah claimed that confronting extremism is “both a regional and international responsibility, but it is mainly our battle, us Muslims, against this who seek to hijack our societies and generations with intolerance takfiri ideology.”

“Takfiri” refers to the radical Islamic practice of declaring one’s enemies to be infidels worthy of death.

Jordan is part of the US-led coalition and has launched airstrikes against Daesh, which has claimed responsibility for the attacks.
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coleridge said:
I found it to be an incomprehensible decision by the MOD at the time.
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Unbelievable, given the entire fleet OF Harriers had just undergone a multimillion pound refit and modernisation!
I am deadly serious about asking for them back by the way because I believe the F35 will be scrapped.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
See the non islamic IS have recruited 3 more non islamic thugs to stab a teacher at a Jewish school in Marseille while claiming to be IS. I expect they were Shinto Buddhists.
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Very sad news. So you want to tell me this is nothing to do with Israel?

Anyway, I thought that the Japanese were claiming to be Shinto Buddhists as they carried out atrocities in China and elsewhere in WWII and so on.
 
denislawsbackheel said:
Unbelievable, given the entire fleet OF Harriers had just undergone a multimillion pound refit and modernisation!
I am deadly serious about asking for them back by the way because I believe the F35 will be scrapped.
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Only if they can get them for free. There's a deficit to clear and tax cuts to hand out by 2020 remember.
 
coleridge said:
My cousin is a woman. Many of my forefathers have been in the army and the police.

Radicalisation on the internet is inherently secretive. Seriously, are parents sat at dinner with their kids discussing becoming suicide bombers?
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My bad, youre cousin is a good woman.

The internet is not all that secretive. Its possible to track and trace practically anything. There just isnt the man (or woman) power to do this effectively at the moment but in any case are you seriously expecting us to believe that a sweet 16 year old kid perhaps dreaming of a life in footy or something can turn into a hate fuelled terrorist in what 1 year/18 months without any ANY of the aforementiod family freinds etc etc noticing.

Ill level with you coleridge. I think the mosque you go to probably is a fine old place of worship. However i think its bollocks to expect us non believers that mosques particularly those in more deprived areas arent breeding grounds of militantancy. Furthermore the manner which many of the questions ive asked or points ive raised have either been skirted round or ignored completely serves only to reinforce the view that perhaps islam is an insular and secretive society which perhaps seeks to protect its people over and above any actual laws of whichever land they reside.
 
worsleyweb said:
Shit hole of a country. Went in 1995. Got the trots on day 1. Ex Mrs was circled by chanting men in the sea and every time I nipped out to the chemist to get something to stop me shitting and puking some feral kids put a rose in my hand and expected a few quid. Lost about two stone in two weeks though. Never again.
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Thats some fucking weird diet - you could have stayed home and gone on the Atkins?
 
@coleridge do you have any response to my comment?

You suggested previously that the reason Islam comes in for more scrutiny than other religions is because of bigotry against Muslims. Do you really believe that?

You don't think there's good reason to be fearful of Islam given all the violence carried out in its name every year by radicals the world over, quoting the faith's holy book?

You don't think any criticisms of the link between the violence and the religious doctrine has any merit?

This is a faith which is overwhelmingly overrepresented among religiously motivated violence the world over - let's not pretend otherwise. And of course, you're not responsible for that just by being virtue of a Muslim yourself. That should go without saying. It's an inescapable fact however, that your faith is regularly cited as justification for religious violence the world over, much more so than any other faith. Why do you think this is? What is the solution?

The rest of us are just looking in from the outside, trying to make sense of it all the best we can, we don't have all the answers of course. I'd be interested to hear your perspective.

I'm an atheist and I see flaws in all the faiths, but that doesn't mean I think they're all equally flawed, or that we have equal reason to be fearful/critical of each faith equally. I don't fear Mormon or Hindu terrorism for example.

As Sam Harris recently put it, uncomfortable truth or not: "Islam is the motherload of bad ideas". Particularly in the context of modern Western liberalism and secular democracy. There's a lot within the Koran that stands in direct opposition to the values we hold dear in our modern secular societies.

That's not to say that all Muslims stand in opposition to such democratic and liberal principles, they don't, only that those that are motivated to stand in opposition to them can find plenty of justification to do so in the Koran. Islam isn't a faith with a central figure like Catholicism for example, with a leading figurehead, many Imams seem to preach vastly differing interpretations of the faith. Such is the manner in which Islam can seemingly often be open to interpretation.

Could you please recognise that the criticisms of people like myself are not borne out of bigotry, and address these issues that we observe from the outside looking in?

Cheers blue.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
Mate, rather than implying Islam gets more focus than other religions due to some kind of bigotry against Muslims, has it ever occurred to you that it's because Islam is currently responsible for the vast majority of religiously motivated violence in the world at present?
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Let's consider a few things about that statement.
  • It may be true that Muslims (rather than Islam) are responsible for the majority of religiously motivated violence currently. However, much of that involves the deaths of fellow Muslims so you can't really class it as Islam v the rest.
  • Had we been having this discussion 500 or 1,000 years ago, then we would have been talking about Christianity. The point has been made on here before that Islam is a relatively young religion that hasn't really come to terms with the world around it and the separation of church and state that Christianity experienced a few hundred years ago. It hasn't yet happened in the Middle East/Pakistan/Afghanistan & North Africa, although it's getting close in places like Malaysia & Indonesia and works reasonably well in Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain & Qatar.
  • Even some Muslim groups aren't doing it because they're Muslim. It's because they have a political motive (Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Al Qaeda) in a regions of the word where there is tremendous political instability and tend to be populated by Muslims. Relatively few groups (ISIS & Boko Haram principally) are doing it primarily for religious reasons.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Let's consider a few things about that statement.
  • It may be true that Muslims (rather than Islam) are responsible for the majority of religiously motivated violence currently. However, much of that involves the deaths of fellow Muslims so you can't really class it as Islam v the rest.
  • Had we been having this discussion 500 or 1,000 years ago, then we would have been talking about Christianity. The point has been made on here before that Islam is a relatively young religion that hasn't really come to terms with the world around it and the separation of church and state that Christianity experienced a few hundred years ago. It hasn't yet happened in the Middle East/Pakistan/Afghanistan & North Africa, although it's getting close in places like Malaysia & Indonesia and works reasonably well in Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain & Qatar.
  • Even some Muslim groups aren't doing it because they're Muslim. It's because they have a political motive (Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban, Al Qaeda) in a regions of the word where there is tremendous political instability and tend to be populated by Muslims. Relatively few groups (ISIS & Boko Haram principally) are doing it primarily for religious reasons.
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Regardless of the above the fact is its driven by a religious doctrine..that religion being Islam..why people want to apportion blame elsewhere is beyond me..for once..politics takes a back seat
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
@coleridge do you have any response to my comment?

You suggested previously that the reason Islam comes in for more scrutiny than other religions is because of bigotry against Muslims. Do you really believe that?

You don't think there's good reason to be fearful of Islam given all the violence carried out in its name every year by radicals the world over, quoting the faith's holy book?

You don't think any criticisms of the link between the violence and the religious doctrine has any merit?

This is a faith which is overwhelmingly overrepresented among religiously motivated violence the world over - let's not pretend otherwise. And of course, you're not responsible for that just by being virtue of a Muslim yourself. That should go without saying. It's an inescapable fact however, that your faith is regularly cited as justification for religious violence the world over, much more so than any other faith. Why do you think this is? What is the solution?

The rest of us are just looking in from the outside, trying to make sense of it all the best we can, we don't have all the answers of course. I'd be interested to hear your perspective.

I'm an atheist and I see flaws in all the faiths, but that doesn't mean I think they're all equally flawed, or that we have equal reason to be fearful/critical of each faith equally. I don't fear Mormon or Hindu terrorism for example.

As Sam Harris recently put it, uncomfortable truth or not: "Islam is the motherload of bad ideas". Particularly in the context of modern Western liberalism and secular democracy. There's a lot within the Koran that stands in direct opposition to the values we hold dear in our modern secular societies.

That's not to say that all Muslims stand in opposition to such democratic and liberal principles, they don't, only that those that are motivated to stand in opposition to them can find plenty of justification to do so in the Koran. Islam isn't a faith with a central figure like Catholicism for example, with a leading figurehead, many Imams seem to preach vastly differing interpretations of the faith. Such is the manner in which Islam can seemingly often be open to interpretation.

Could you please recognise that the criticisms of people like myself are not borne out of bigotry, and address these issues that we observe from the outside looking in?

Cheers blue.
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You seriously think Muslims in the name of Islam have killed more people than Christians in the last thirty or forty years.?
Why are the same questions not asked of fundamentalism in the US which has murdered millions.
Imposed sanctions on countries which have seen them in a permanent state of emergency and continue to arm anyone who will pretend to fight their enemies.
Why have ISIS got American humvees and weapons?

Sam Harris is an utter tit who has been hammered in too many discussions. An absolute shit stain on political debate.
 
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