Attacks in Paris

[Prestwich_Blue]

The fact that someone might have come as a refugee is completely irrelevant and would only be of any real import if there were no home-grown terrorists, which there are.

There have always been refugees and migrants, legal and illegal. The same arguments being used today, were used over 100 years ago, when the Aliens Act was introduced to combat the wave of refugees from trouble in Russia.

Camps like Sangatte, near Calais, have been there for over 15 years. People smugglers have been operating for ages. People from war-torn countries that have no connection with ISIS or similar groups have been fleeing here for years. And once they're in the EU, they can move pretty freely. So blaming this on the current Syrian refugee crisis is nonsense. Terrorists need weapons and explosives and refugees aren't bringing those with them.

 

[squirtyflower]

No - just seen on BBC news that 2 passports have been found one from Syria. It also says somebody using a passport with that name on it came through Greece in October. You really have to learn how an investigation works, You join the dots you don't jump big gaps assuming those dots you have jumped all join up. As yet somebody on that passport came through Greece in October. There is nothing to say the dead guy at the scene was that same guy nor that either the dead man or the guy coming through Greece were the same person nor have they given a name yet. Listen to what they say and take baby steps with the rest of the rational world rather than try and jump from start to finish in one leap.

101 James Bond
You shouldn't have to do this, I thought they were already experts in detective work

 

[blueincy]

With ISIS claiming responsibility for the Paris attacks, the investigation moved beyond France as Belgian authorities made a number of arrests there in the first publicized apprehensions following Friday night's bloodshed, a Belgian justice ministry spokeswoman told CNN on Saturday.

Meanwhile, at least one American is among the Paris death toll, now at 129 people, officials said. The U.S. victim was Nohemi Gonzalez, 23, of El Monte, California, a junior studying design in Paris for a semester while enrolled at California State University, Long Beach, the school said.

In Belgium, raids were conducted in the Brussels suburb of Molenbeek-Saint-Jean, justice ministry spokeswoman Sieghild Lacoere said. A car rented in Brussels was found near one of the sites of the Paris attacks, and "that's what triggered the raids," Lacoere told CNN.

In all, the raids took place in three homes in Molenbeek-Saint-Jean, a Western intelligence source told CNN.

At least one of the raids is connected to the Paris attacks, according to the source, who is in contact with French and Belgian intelligence services. The other raids are connected to individuals known to Belgium intelligence, the source said. Some of the Paris attackers are also known to Belgium intelligence, the source added.

 

[west didsblue]

Yes - its says PASSPORTS have been found. There is still no confirmation that the persons that those passports were issued to in those countries were the persons dead at the scene. Its how investigations work. Trade in facts only.

I was only pointing out what was said, not whether it proved anything

 

[big blue balls]

They you go again, misrepresenting the truth
They have said a Syrian passport has been found, none are reporting that they arrived through Greece on 5th October

There you go again knowing fuck all
Mail online, Greeces deputy police chief Nikos Toskas ''we announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on October 3rd where he was identified based on EU rules''
Who am i or you to argue with Mr Toskas

 

[squirtyflower]

There you go again knowing fuck all
Mail online, Greeces deputy police chief Nikos Toskas ''we announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on October 3rd where he was identified based on EU rules''
Who am i or you to argue with Mr Toskas

You're the one who knows nothing
A passport was found that matches one that came through Greece, how hard is this for your one functioning brain cell

 

[BlueHalli]

No - just seen on BBC news that 2 passports have been found one from Syria. It also says somebody using a passport with that name on it came through Greece in October. You really have to learn how an investigation works, You join the dots you don't jump big gaps assuming those dots you have jumped all join up. As yet somebody on that passport came through Greece in October. There is nothing to say the dead guy at the scene was that same guy nor that either the dead man or the guy coming through Greece were the same person nor have they given a name yet. Listen to what they say and take baby steps with the rest of the rational world rather than try and jump from start to finish in one leap.

Just sat here and listened to the reporter say two came through Greece as refugees. Just repeating what the reporter said. Come back and let me know if they confirm it only being one or none.

 

[hilts]

Of course it's true that there will be evil in every group of people, but the fact there may be doesn't justify doing nothing. Is that liberals as in the enemy of ISIS those who support the world ISIS oppose?

The point was a straightforward one if you allow immigration from certain parts of the world and I would also include Eastern Europe in this it will cause trouble, if people think this is a price worth paying then they should at least be honest about it, the previous threads we have had are full of posters who deflect this very point with tales of Syrian brain surgeons and Albanian culture inhancing our lives, they never ever admit the negatives, the racist nutters do the opposite

The debate for me shouldn't be economic or ideological, a government should protect its inhabitants

 

[foxy]

The idea that people fleeing war torn countries are a `swarm`, IMO, dehumanises them. This s your true intention, because that's the type of guy you are.

Get off your high horse and stop judging people you've never met.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

No one said it was not, but as my Israeli friend once said, no one gets up in the morning and says what a great life and prospects I have I think I will go and blow myself up, you can not untangle the the issues

Of course, but no one made a point that there aren't other issues into the melting pot which create this clusterfuck, only that we shouldn't ignore the significance of religion in the violence.

As Westerners we reflect upon ourselves as a matter of course, look at what we could do differently, what our government is responsible for.

It's about time we recognised our influence is limited. We're not responsible for all the world's ills.

There's an inherent arrogance to think that we are responsible for all the world's ills.

For a long time people in this country were of this belief that once you solved the Israel/Palestine issue, then the Middle East would be at peace and everything else would solve itself. This was clearly nonsense.

Some people hold reprehensible political and ideological views, we're not responsible for them.

Israel isn't responsible for all the hate and bloodshed in the Middle East. Neither is America or Western Europe.

I don't see Turks reflecting upon the wrongs of the Ottoman empire and flagging themselves about how they're responsible for all the wrongs in the Middle East.

It's only us. And it's arrogance. Self indulgence.

And all it serves to do is reinforce the persecution narrative of Islamists for example, it lends credence to their political views.

Instead of taking ownership for their brutality and violence. It's someone else's fault. And many people in the West inadvertently legitimise these views.

Tired of this train of thought. It's getting us nowhere.