Away tickets

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ninjamonkey said:
Not disputing this is also a big problem, but to the person sat at home yesterday on 17k points that missed out on a ticket, it doesn't matter to them whether a ticket goes to somebody from overseas attending their first ever match that couldn't tell which silva was which or a person born and raised in moss side, who used to attend as many games as possible, buys all the merchandise etc but doesn't have the points for whatever reason. Regardless of who it is, it's still somebody at the match who should be behind the person sitting at home
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Speaking as someone who has nearly 17k points myself and was sitting at home (or the pub in reality) I would much rather that tickets went to an actual city supporter than people on a day trip.

If I was in a better health I would have probably gone anyway and hoped to get a spare which is what I did twice for Bournemouth in previous seasons. The 1st time I managed to get a spare face value. The 2nd time I couldn't find one and had to watch as I walked away from the ground just after kick off as a group of 3 tourists were led to the away end to go in as they were so clueless about going to games that they had tried to wander into the home end behind a queue of Bournemouth fans!

Like I think I said, there should in my opinion be a discussion about sup porters club allocations, I just think some of the hostility towards them could be toned down a little considering they ARE city fans.

The priority for me should be reducing the amount allotted to hospitality and the amount that city appear to give directly to agencies (I don't know if that comes out of the same pot as hospitality but I've not heard a plausible reason for large groups of tourists ending up with away tickets through any other way than getting them from city endorsed agencies) Doing that would make a big difference and it is not good enough to say oh they won't do that, especially when we know that similar clubs give far fewer to hospitality. Not to get political again or over dramatic but changes are never gifted to people they are won with a fight.

So if it were up to me my number one aim would be to reduce the hospitality pot, but also be open to discussions about supporter club allocations and on ways on cutting down on abuses of the system (whoever it is doing it) although that would probably not include requiring photo ID as I think as football fans we are monitored and treated as criminals too much as it is.

I am opposed to a ballot as a way of people supposedly getting the chance of going to the odd away game as like many have said there have been a significant number of games go down to very low points criteria this season (and previous seasons). In some people's minds the only 'odd away game' they want to attend in reality happens to be games like united away - (a game I have never qualified for with my nearly 17k points)
 
ninjamonkey said:
Your defence is based entirely on them being beneficial to you personally, i understand from your point of view wanting to defend something that benefits you but why should you get tickets for games ahead of others on more points not belonging to a SC? Thats the key question, and one that still hasnt been answered. The diversion tactic of shifting the blame to an arguably bigger problem doesnt make this less of a problem. There might be a hierarchy within the branch itself but every person in that branch is still skipping the queue ahead of everybody else. There is simply no legitimate reason for people belonging to a branch getting priority.
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Don’t confuse loyalty points with loyalty. They are not the same thing. For instance I think the platinum = double points is a disgrace.
I don’t know how many loyalty points I have - last I looked it was about 10k.
My loyalty comes about from having a season ticket/card since 1976 and following city away many times to over 60 different grounds mostly when we were average at best.
This is nothing in comparison to many blues but why shouldn’t I get tickets occasionally ahead of some people with more points than me.
 
fathellensbellend said:
maybe so, but i guarentee every excuse in the book will come out, moaning about 2 trips in a few weeks, yet the regulars will do it, without batting an eyelid, like they do 30 times a season.
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Who do you mean will be moaning and making excuses, also which regulars are you referring to? Genuine question btw.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
I am absolutely sick and fucking tired of having my words miscontrued, misrepresented or ignored. I've already put posters on my Ignore list over this thread and have asked Ric to deactivate my account recently, which he talked me out of. I'll say this one more time and then I won't be making any more substantive posts in this thread for the time being, regardless of the provocation. If people have anything constructive to say to me, feel free to do it through my City Matters email.

So here's where I stand. The current system (including both the points and ticket allocation systems) is what it is but in my opinion, and I think in the opinion of virtually all of us on here plus the club, it's a mish-mash that you certainly wouldn't implement from scratch if you were doing so. There are some good things in it but it's also open to multiple abuses and contains elements that can rightfully be categorised as unfair, although different people see some of these differently.

I think we pretty well all agree that Platinum is unfair, as is the amount of tickets going to seasonal hospitality members. I'd also say most of us agree that we'd welcome better oversight and policing of the ticket distribution process. I believe the club is on-board with this as well but the question is how far will they go to make it happen and I don't know the answer to that. We need to look at the whole process from top to bottom and ensure it's fit for purpose for where we are now and remove the abuses as far as we can.

As I've already made clear, in an ideal world I'd do it differently so that more tickets are going to independent season card holders, who I represent on City Matters. But there are also people on the committee who represent competing interests. And the club may feel that it needs the carrot of away tickets to protect what it sees as their interests in respect of those groups, which means there's little or nothing I can do. But I don't just represent those with over 20k points, I also represent those who bought their first season cards this season. And, as @edinburgh123 said, why should he be penalised if there isn't an SC branch near him? He shouldn't, which is why I believe there should be some way of people getting occasional away tickets even if they don't have 18k points but where genuinely loyal fans are at the front of the queue. Currently the SC allocation meets my requirement to have fans who maybe don't have the points able to go to games. So I "defend" it in that sense but it's definitely not perfect and I wouldn't see keeping it, when there's a better alternative, as a matter of principle. But nor would I necessarily consider it a resigning matter if the club decided to keep it.

I am not accepting any responsibility for the actions of branches or the SC in general. That's for the SC Executive and the club to sort out. I am a member of my local branch but joined pretty recently and have no position within that branch. They (Alkrington) hold regular meetings and I think most of the members would support the branch whether they had access to tickets or not. There's probably quite a few like that both locally and particularly those that aren't. I could be wrong but the branch I used to belong to (P&W) only appears to hold meetings on a very irregular basis (although I think they've had problems with a venue up till recently and haven't been a member for a few years).

I don't think I could be much clearer but if there's anything in this that still isn't clear then I'm happy to clarify.
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I would think of myself as having a good knowledge of Greater Manchester and it’s areas but I’ve never heard of the place Alkrington before your post, ever before. Haha

Nowt to do with the debate but you really do learn something new every day!
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
City Matters has produced two positive things re away tickets to date:

The club has released the split of how allocations are distributed and the shocking fact that seasoncard holders only get 60% is now in the open.

The club are looking at the possibility of 5% of tickets going to a ballot only open to young supporters and this was going to come out of the 60%. It now seems like it will be coming out of all allocations but seasoncard holders will take the biggest hit overall.

Neither of these two points are overly positive but at least there is a debate about it. What would be interesting to know is what the split of away ticket allocations was say five years ago. The reason is that I suspect that seasoncard member allocation has probably been the go to one when the club has decided to allocate more to another group - seasonal hospitality in the main. I'd reckon that supporters clubs have maintained their overall percentage even if tickets per branch has gone down. The question then is why is the club targeting long term, committed supporters?
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I’ve been a casual visitor to this thread and seen the 60% for fans through Ticket Points. Just wondering if anyone can tell me how and who to the other 40% is allocated, please?
 
geoff hammond said:
Don’t confuse loyalty points with loyalty. They are not the same thing. For instance I think the platinum = double points is a disgrace.
I don’t know how many loyalty points I have - last I looked it was about 10k.
My loyalty comes about from having a season ticket/card since 1976 and following city away many times to over 60 different grounds mostly when we were average at best.
This is nothing in comparison to many blues but why shouldn’t I get tickets occasionally ahead of some people with more points than me.
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Loyalty is such a weird concept, in my opinion, and im speaking as somebody who does go home and away most weeks and spends the majority of my disposable income on city, going to games doesn't make you any more loyal than somebody who can't afford to, watching every game doesn't make you more loyal than somebody who has to work to support his family and can't see every match, etc etc. In the main, anybody born a city fan and who has remained a city throughout is as loyal as the next. But were getting sidetracked here. To clarify, any time i used the word loyalty in any of my posts in this thread it was purely meant in reference to the points system and wasn't questioning anybodies loyalty to the club.

As for why you shouldnt get tickets ahead of others, well because it makes a mockery of every single person higher up in the points system that doesnt get the option of purchasing a ticket before you. This isn't having a go at you personally mate and it applies to anybody and everybody who gets tickets that way but with respect, what makes you special? There's a queue, it's not perfect, it has many flaws that can be improved upon but it doesn't mean you or anybody else should get to ignore it and jump the queue.

To use an anaolgy that's probably poorly thought out, If you have been in the same job for say 15 years, working your way up from the bottom, taking the unsociable shifts, doing the nasty jobs and have worked your way up the ladder over time and then the promotion you've been waiting for becomes available and your next in line for it only for the manager to give the job to his mate who has zero experience or qualifications to be in that role, you're not going to be happy about it are you? It's the same principle here. Now of course, that does happen in life but i think the overwhelmkng majority would all agree it shouldn't, and given the power to, we would all vote to make sure it doesn't happen anymore wouldn't we?


blue_jess said:
Speaking as someone who has nearly 17k points myself and was sitting at home (or the pub in reality) I would much rather that tickets went to an actual city supporter than people on a day trip.

If I was in a better health I would have probably gone anyway and hoped to get a spare which is what I did twice for Bournemouth in previous seasons. The 1st time I managed to get a spare face value. The 2nd time I couldn't find one and had to watch as I walked away from the ground just after kick off as a group of 3 tourists were led to the away end to go in as they were so clueless about going to games that they had tried to wander into the home end behind a queue of Bournemouth fans!

Like I think I said, there should in my opinion be a discussion about sup porters club allocations, I just think some of the hostility towards them could be toned down a little considering they ARE city fans.

The priority for me should be reducing the amount allotted to hospitality and the amount that city appear to give directly to agencies (I don't know if that comes out of the same pot as hospitality but I've not heard a plausible reason for large groups of tourists ending up with away tickets through any other way than getting them from city endorsed agencies) Doing that would make a big difference and it is not good enough to say oh they won't do that, especially when we know that similar clubs give far fewer to hospitality. Not to get political again or over dramatic but changes are never gifted to people they are won with a fight.

So if it were up to me my number one aim would be to reduce the hospitality pot, but also be open to discussions about supporter club allocations and on ways on cutting down on abuses of the system (whoever it is doing it) although that would probably not include requiring photo ID as I think as football fans we are monitored and treated as criminals too much as it is.

I am opposed to a ballot as a way of people supposedly getting the chance of going to the odd away game as like many have said there have been a significant number of games go down to very low points criteria this season (and previous seasons). In some people's minds the only 'odd away game' they want to attend in reality happens to be games like united away - (a game I have never qualified for with my nearly 17k points)
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In complete agreement with you with regards to overseas supporters obtaining rows of tickets from thin air, I was right infront of the infamous crowd of Belgians at Arsenal a few years ago, this season at Anfield I was directly behind a row of about 5/6 asian fans kitted out in their half and half scarves and cameras, Chelsea away last 3 years I've been directly infront of or behind foreign fans, one turned and asked me the words to a song once, it was blue moon... and there's been plenty more instances, my only issue was the distinction between those fans and SC queue jumpers, i get what you're saying but ultimately, they both have the exact same impact on people that use the loyalty points system in that it unfairly pushes them back even further.

I don't think either issue should be prioritised over the other in terms of importance, both need to be fixed, the only reason I mentioned SC's, aside from it being the hot topic in the thread when I decided to chip in is because it's the easiest thing to fix first. It's wrong, but City as a business have to attract the people with the most money and so it's going to be a hard sell to City for them to cut back on corporate tickets, its absolutely worth fighting for and a battle we need to win as fans if we are to keep the identity of the club local but the SC allocation is an easy fix, the fans get a win and feel like we're being listened to, the club aren't upsetting anybody other than the system abusers by doing it, nor would it cost them financially either in implementing the change or in lost revenue and given the percentage breakdown of the ticket distributions seen in here, it would swell the pool of tickets going to the points system the most which should be the main aim. It's as the old adage says, pick your battles. It's an easy win for both sides and should be the starting point.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
I would think of myself as having a good knowledge of Greater Manchester and it’s areas but I’ve never heard of the place Alkrington before your post, ever before. Haha

Nowt to do with the debate but you really do learn something new every day!
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It is Alkrington Garden Village to be precise.

Middleton also has 3 official supporters clubs.
 
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