Barry>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>De Jong

[Padre]

In a 4-man midfield de Jong puts an awful lot of pressure on his central partner as IMO he's an extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet. In a 5-man midfield he's fine as he's absolved of this responsibility and can go about his natural game breaking-up play and leave the football to his team-mates.

Barry's had a nightmare of a Summer and looks to be suffering from a World Cup hangover, where his fitness - despite the time he spent on the pitch - looked questionable. A Summer of rest would have been of benefit to us and him.

My philosophy would be to go for the better footballer as the best teams control games through possession and passing rather than spoiling although I would concede you need that option in certain games.

If we get Milner it'll be Yaya and JM anyway - IMHO.

 

[King Geedorah]

Stats mean fuck all, especially when you take them from just one game ffs.

Barry didn't make 91 tackles in one game, I don't know where he has found these stats but they are not from just one game.<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:02 pm --<br /><br />

In a 4-man midfield de Jong puts an awful lot of pressure on his central partner as IMO he's an extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet.

Because he sits so deep his partner will often find himself out numbered 3 to 1 if Tevez doesn't drop back. That basically makes his partner useless meaning an inevitable 3 on 1, now fair enough De Jong often makes the challenge but he brings the situation on himself. The best teams press high up the pitch and that's what RM is aiming to do with the energetic duo of Toure and Milner.

 

[Interstate 5]

Those stats are meaningless anyway without considering:

How many games. Bit obvious, but the OP hasn't even stated that..
Standard of opposition.
Style of play of opposition - long ball teams? Teams that play down the wings? Teams that play it on the ground through the middle?
How long the ball spent in our half - for instance, you wouldn't expect De Jong to make many tackles if we were playing Dagenham, but you'd expect Barry to make a lot if we were playing Chelsea.
Who else played in OUR team - Tevez tracks back and tackles, Ireland not so much so, Ade barely goes past the halfway line, so who played just in front of the midfield?
Card-happy refs? Cup games? "Big" matches?

Stats should only ever be compared as a small part of overall analysis. Using stats to compare players is worthless without taking into account the other 21 players on the pitch. And six possible subs. And the job the manager asked the player to do. And the way he wanted his team to play. And the ref. And the conditions. And the context of the game. And... well, you get the picture.

Worthless.

 

[Padre]

In a 4-man midfield de Jong puts an awful lot of pressure on his central partner as IMO he's an extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet.

Because he sits so deep his partner will often find himself out numbered 3 to 1 if Tevez doesn't drop back. That basically makes his partner useless meaning an inevitable 3 on 1, now fair enough De Jong often makes the challenge but he brings the situation on himself. The best teams press high up the pitch and that's what RM is aiming to do with the energetic duo of Toure and Milner.

Yes, I agree. We need midfielders who can make more of an allround contribution.

 

[masterwig]

Yes, I agree. We need midfielders who can make more of an allround contribution.

In an ideal world we'd have a load of world class all-rounders. But as it is, I'd rather see a player who is exceptional at one facet of the game over a player who is average at many.

We'll have to see how Barry does if he is playing behind Silva and Milner with Yaya there too. I expect he'd do quite well with those players to do the running.

 

[Padre]

Yes, I agree. We need midfielders who can make more of an allround contribution.

In an ideal world we'd have a load of world class all-rounders. But as it is, I'd rather see a player who is exceptional at one facet of the game over a player who is average at many.

We'll have to see how Barry does if he is playing behind Silva and Milner with Yaya there too. I expect he'd do quite well with those players to do the running.

Who said anything about an ideal world ? NdJ is basically a non-entity when we have the ball. He's a fine tackler but passes the buck - sideways and backward mostly - when we're in possession.

If push comes to shove, I'd favour Barry as IMHO he'd give us more in the "de Jong" role.

 

[Barcon]

I thought the O.P was a rag. No?

 

[foolsgold*]

Those stats are meaningless anyway without considering:

How many games. Bit obvious, but the OP hasn't even stated that..
Standard of opposition.
Style of play of opposition - long ball teams? Teams that play down the wings? Teams that play it on the ground through the middle?
How long the ball spent in our half - for instance, you wouldn't expect De Jong to make many tackles if we were playing Dagenham, but you'd expect Barry to make a lot if we were playing Chelsea.
Who else played in OUR team - Tevez tracks back and tackles, Ireland not so much so, Ade barely goes past the halfway line, so who played just in front of the midfield?
Card-happy refs? Cup games? "Big" matches?

Stats should only ever be compared as a small part of overall analysis. Using stats to compare players is worthless without taking into account the other 21 players on the pitch. And six possible subs. And the job the manager asked the player to do. And the way he wanted his team to play. And the ref. And the conditions. And the context of the game. And... well, you get the picture.

Worthless.

also where the stats came from..?? noone asked that yet?

 

[blue_paul]

I'd sell De Jong if we got the chance. Firstly, for a supposed defensive midfielder, his tackling is often reckless and mis-timed. He offers absolutely nothing in an offensive sense and cannot play as part of a 4 man midfield.
People rate him because they see him as some kind of destroyer but as has been alluded to previously already on this thread, we need far more dynamic midfielders at City, not the ridiculously limited Nigel I'm afraid.
Claude Makelele has a lot to answer for. He has made these one dimensional 'holding players' fashionable and people who seem to know very little bout the game spout on about how every good side needs a De Jong or a Mascherano where the truth is you need midfielders to do a hell of a lot more, no matter what championship manager or sky sports tell you.
Barry does look sluggish too but he's an asset if he can gt himself sharp.

I await the hordes to tell me I haven't got clue but I'd prefer a rational argument against my point.

 

[ElanJo]

In a 4-man midfield de Jong puts an awful lot of pressure on his central partner as IMO he's an extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet. In a 5-man midfield he's fine as he's absolved of this responsibility and can go about his natural game breaking-up play and leave the football to his team-mates.

Barry's had a nightmare of a Summer and looks to be suffering from a World Cup hangover, where his fitness - despite the time he spent on the pitch - looked questionable. A Summer of rest would have been of benefit to us and him.

My philosophy would be to go for the better footballer as the best teams control games through possession and passing rather than spoiling although I would concede you need that option in certain games.

If we get Milner it'll be Yaya and JM anyway - IMHO.

That