Dave Ewing's Back 'eader
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Costa Del City said:
I like 'em both, but another useful(?) statistic - Who's given away more pens?
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Barry>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>De Jong
- Thread starter Sabster
- Start date
I like 'em both, but another useful(?) statistic - Who's given away more pens?
Lancet Fluke
Well-Known Member
King Geedorah said:masterwig said:World Cup finalist Nigel De Jong or slow-coach Barry? I know who I'd choose.
One breaks up play and is excellent at what he does. Knows his limits and sticks to what he's good at. Barry is a fucking JML product. Can do loads of things but none of them particularly well.
Then how do you explain Barry breaking up play more successfully than De Jong?
Also international performances have absolutely zero impact on how well City do, all that matters to me is how they perform in blue. Especially when you consider how De Jong is in a far better team.
Is this just a completely accepted fact now then?
King Geedorah
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Lancet Fluke said:Is this just a completely accepted fact now then?
Well so far the opinion of Sabster has been backed up by statistics, no-one has found anything other than increasingly dramatic superlatives to back up the opinion that De Jong is the better player.
Stats should always be taken with a pinch of salt. Generally a defender who plays lots of short passes will have a better statistical pass success rate than a winger who puts in a series of dangerous crosses that cause all sorts of problems for the opposition but maybe only one in four will be met by a forward rather than put behind for a corner or whatever. Doesn't mean the defender is a better passer.
King Geedorah
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masterwig said:Stats should always be taken with a pinch of salt. Generally a defender who plays lots of short passes will have a better statistical pass success rate than a winger who puts in a series of dangerous crosses that cause all sorts of problems for the opposition but maybe only one in four will be met by a forward rather than put behind for a corner or whatever. Doesn't mean the defender is a better passer.
You're right, but opinions with fuck all to back them up should be taken with a truckload of salt.
I base my opinions on what I see in a game. Barry lacks the pace to be a real threat going forward. How many goals did he assist last season? Not many. He doesn't score a lot and creates very little. He needs two players ahead/alongside him to do all the running and creating. He can play a nice pass here and there. If the team was built around him he would be a decent player but not top level.
De Jong on the other hand is a pure destroyer. I wouldn't play him in every game, he's not needed every match but against the best teams I think he is a far more imposing figure than Barry, especially against physical teams. Barry is a bit soft and when the crowd were against him at Villa he wilted. I don't see De Jong crumbling like that.
They have different roles but I really think De Jong is the better player. If we had to sell one tomorrow Barry would definitely be first out of the door.
De Jong on the other hand is a pure destroyer. I wouldn't play him in every game, he's not needed every match but against the best teams I think he is a far more imposing figure than Barry, especially against physical teams. Barry is a bit soft and when the crowd were against him at Villa he wilted. I don't see De Jong crumbling like that.
They have different roles but I really think De Jong is the better player. If we had to sell one tomorrow Barry would definitely be first out of the door.
Lancet Fluke
Well-Known Member
King Geedorah said:Lancet Fluke said:Is this just a completely accepted fact now then?
Well so far the opinion of Sabster has been backed up by statistics, no-one has found anything other than increasingly dramatic superlatives to back up the opinion that De Jong is the better player.
I'll take that as a no then.
King Geedorah
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Ok you watch the games. Cast your mind back to those games early on in 2009/2010, was Barry not instrumental in a deeper role at linking up defence and attack as well as helping us keep a clean sheets?
Furthermore Capello seems to think Barry is instrumental to England, especially as the more conservative player in a 4-4-2. That's an international manager, surely the highest level?
Barry is not a box to box midfielder so it's understandable he was poor in that role, he is a defensive midfielder come deep lying play maker. Have a read of this article explaining how tackling is becoming redundant in the modern game.<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:51 pm --<br /><br />
Of course it's a no, I'm not so self righteous as to believe my opinion is beyond all reasonable doubt.
Furthermore Capello seems to think Barry is instrumental to England, especially as the more conservative player in a 4-4-2. That's an international manager, surely the highest level?
Barry is not a box to box midfielder so it's understandable he was poor in that role, he is a defensive midfielder come deep lying play maker. Have a read of this article explaining how tackling is becoming redundant in the modern game.<br /><br />-- Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:51 pm --<br /><br />
Lancet Fluke said:I'll take that as a no then.
Of course it's a no, I'm not so self righteous as to believe my opinion is beyond all reasonable doubt.
Lancet Fluke
Well-Known Member
I just wish there was a way that we could fuck Barry off back to Villa as part of the Milner deal. Knock money off the deal and weaken a rival at the same time.