Blaming the players

[Uwe Rosler's Grandad]

robbie not falling out with you mate, but I dont expect overnight sucess and im prepared to give him a minimum of a full season to prove himself. Remember the outrage at sven gettin the push after a full season ! dont you think MH deserves the same ?

No worries mate!:-)

I don't expect overnight sucees either-just better than where we are now!
I feel that MH only knows or "trusts" a particular "style" of player,and that his weaknesses in managing those who don't share his "vision" are currently being exposed.
The reason why he had success at Blackburn is that he only HAD,with a few exceptions, these "type" of players to deal with,in a similar vein to Allardyce.He played to his strengths at a club with no expectations other than to stay up-and fair play to him.
Some could argue that in his apparent rush to sign the likes of Bellamy and surround himself with those players he "trusts" Hughes is actually taking us backwards tactically.
I think Hughes is a good manager at his Blackburn level-he's just getting found with the "better" players at City.

Unless you think that Samba and Tugay are better than Richards and Ireland....;-)

And don't worry-Hughes will be here for the rest of the season.But I think his shortcomings will be well noted by those who make decisions by then.

But I hope I'm totally wrong,and we win the UEFA cup.Then I will eat some seriously humble pie.I'd like nothing better-preferably from Babylon on Oxford rd with their own chilli sauce...mmmmm....

Spot on RobbieB.

 

[mackenzie]

I don't expect overnight sucees either-just better than where we are now!
I feel that MH only knows or "trusts" a particular "style" of player,and that his weaknesses in managing those who don't share his "vision" are currently being exposed.
The reason why he had success at Blackburn is that he only HAD,with a few exceptions, these "type" of players to deal with,in a similar vein to Allardyce.He played to his strengths at a club with no expectations other than to stay up-and fair play to him.
Some could argue that in his apparent rush to sign the likes of Bellamy and surround himself with those players he "trusts" Hughes is actually taking us backwards tactically.
I think Hughes is a good manager at his Blackburn level-he's just getting found with the "better" players at City.

Unless you think that Samba and Tugay are better than Richards and Ireland....;-)

And don't worry-Hughes will be here for the rest of the season.But I think his shortcomings will be well noted by those who make decisions by then.

But I hope I'm totally wrong,and we win the UEFA cup.Then I will eat some seriously humble pie.I'd like nothing better-preferably from Babylon on Oxford rd with their own chilli sauce...mmmmm....[/quote]

Spot on RobbieB.[/quote]

Can't argue with that robbie.

Good post and very insightful.

Let's hope we are proved wrong though eh?

 

[3rdgenctyboy]

The saying is , you cant polish a turd. Sven couldnt and neither can Mark hughes. Something has got to give, and even before Mark Hughes took the city job virtually the same team lost to boro 8-1.

Personally, if i was hughes i'd pay up money to the players i want out to terminate there contract now and play reserves until we sign decent quality, at least they would work for the badge and give 110%. The ones we could actually get money for id do a firesale.

Of these 'turds' in our squad, if put up for sale the hughe majority of them would be snapped up by Premier League clubs. Many of them by top half Premier League clubs.

That's because they are recognised as decent players and you will not find a football supporter in this countyr who holds the opinion that Manchester City do not have better players on their books than Newcastle, Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom, Wigan, Boro, Blackburn, West Ham and Fulham.

Most of them would probably agree we had bettet players than the likes of Pompey and Spurs too.

Still, even though you choose to completely ignore this it still doesn't matter.

Managers are not good managers because they can spend £200m and build a team who can get out of the bottom half. They are good managers because they can get the best out of what they work with. Hughes has consistently got got complete shite out of a squad that half the league would kill for the chance to have at their club.

This post is bang on we have a very expensive squad I'm not saying i want hughes sacked. But he should prove he is worthy of his job by getting the squad he has gelled together an grindin results out. We should be in the top 10 easily with the squad we have, cup games are cup games and you can stomach an early exit if the team have a 1 off bad performance. But when the team are outstanding 1 week and shit for the next 6 and performing badly on a regular basis then its time to ask seriuos questions of the management. We have become the laughing stock of the football world and there are alot of mediocre managers that would love to pick from our squad week in week out.

 

[Scrabster Six]

truth is the club couldnt give a flying fuck about what city supporters think as long as they have your money .the players have bigger egos than Ronaldo and hughes cant control it has to give either way but please dont insult our intelligence with the usual words of "a work in progress" either get rid of hughes or get rid rid of the egotistical maniacs you call players one way or another.This is a joke! mansour or cook sort it out . To the people who went today you are all heroes in my eyes to put up with this shit!

 

[Petetheblu]

oh dear what?

I don't really like Hughes, but what I saw today had very little to do with him...

If it is little to do with Hughes then why on earth are we employing him? His good looks and charm perhaps? Seemingly he might as well go for a cup of tea during the match if what takes place over the 90 minutes is not his responsibility. And thats not even taking into account what takes place during the week - you know minor things like training, coaching, motivating etc etc

Sven gets a regular kicking for the 8-1 - which he should given its was an abysmal performance and don't even get me started on that balloon farce last year or the QF against Spurs so what the hell makes Hughes exempt from getting a kicking for early round exits from this years cup competitions?

Hey Bob don't get me wrong Hughes is to blame for picking players with NO desires, but you can't teach or train things like concentration you've either got it or not. Players are slacking and their concentration are piss poor. Micah heads somewhere else at the moment...Hughes needs to drop him to the reserves for 3 or 4 games and see if he can find his level there.

Micah...lack of concentration.
Dunne did better....against poorer opponents..better concentration than normal, but still not the Dunnie of two seasons ago.
Balls pissed as he's got a replacement. Not to bothered now what happens
Gelson has got desire, but runs around like a ten year old. Doesn't read the game very well...Concentration.
Kompany head is slowly dropping due to the lack of support...This being the most shameful, but still along with Zabs the best form of defence we have.
Elano...All that skill...A shameful header back to our defenders gifted them another chance...Lack of concentration.

I could go on, but whats the point. The common factor here is lack of concentration and you teach that, players have to want it through desire.

Lets not forget we played a struggling championship side today, we let them in within three mins with an open header far post and that put their tails up.

On a plus point Studge did well and has done no harm to his future today, the other well best of luck to them.

 

[Jack74]

Quality post Mr.Maddocks,

Hang on thers a thought lets get him back and he can sack Hughes

And then just fade away again

Today was awful and the buck stops with the manager END OV

HUGHES OUT

I dont think any1 can say he is doing a good job, unless r beloved team score 1st we r a beaton team know we came down from 1-0 against hull 2 grab a point but surely with the amount of money that as been spent we should surely b beating west brom , hull , notts forest and Brighton 2 name but 4, and as a manager it is your job 2 get the best out ov players that r available this season Hart , Richards , Dunne and more notably Elano have not been as good as they where last season am sure the people who want Hughes 2 stay will natter on that Elano as not played well since last October 1 word BULLSHIT

And 2 cap it all I have seen Hughes score against City 4 them lot on many occasions , kiss is badge in front ov me ( Hendry own goal ) and I 4 one cannot wait till he is sacked

HUGHES OUT

 

[allyboy]

OP is spot on.

Just can't be argued with.

End of.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Is he blameless? do you not question him?
Dont hate hughes but why do you believe in him so much, just out of intrest.

what i hate most is this bullshit about being in the hughes in hughes out camp,i will tell you how i see it and it is imho,

i have said before i will give hughes till the end of the season to see how and what he wants to do with this team,to see what players he brings in this window(by the way wayne bridge is a very good start)allso to see what players go out as well,the team atm is very unbalanced in all postions if not unbalanced then back up players are not good enough no matter how much you like or hate hughes it is ther for all to see,i am a patient man and will wait and see if we progress with hughes players and his ideas.

Everyone of sane mind would agree that under normal circumstances a manager should be given at least a season.

Unfortunately for Hughes, normal cirucmstances usually include resutls that range anywhere from 'disapointing' to 'brilliant'.

Hughes' results and performances, on the whole, fall below 'disapointing' and are classed by most as 'completely unimaginable at the start of the season'.

(And despite people trying to rewrite history now, you will not find a single person, even the most vocal Hughes supporter, who prior to the start of the season thought that such results were completely unimaginable and way, way below any acceptable level)

When manager's results and performances fall into that catagory they, almost exclusively, get sacked. It's happened time and again through history. This season, last season and every season prior.

Most of them have a little more self respect than to try to deflect any responsibility from themselves for this and to try to blame it on some sort of conspiracy racked squad intent on wrecking their own careers and reputations. However, even if most did, its a pathetic defense.

Managers should get as much time as they deserve. In the intial stages anyone with half a brain gives them more flexibility than in other situations. However, to be so inflexible to say that you stick with a manager, regardless of horrendous results, performances and morale, in the face of output that would have been deemed a disgrace by EVERYONE prior to the start of the season is dogmatic and self defeating in the extreme.

Would it have been better to stick with Ball or to have got rid of him when most knew he was not up to it? Should Blackburn have stuck with Ince? There are more examples too.

To stick to the 'One season, regardless of whatever dross may be produced' is as daft a stance as the idiots who always wanted him out because he was 'a rag'

 

[leewill31]

what i hate most is this bullshit about being in the hughes in hughes out camp,i will tell you how i see it and it is imho,

i have said before i will give hughes till the end of the season to see how and what he wants to do with this team,to see what players he brings in this window(by the way wayne bridge is a very good start)allso to see what players go out as well,the team atm is very unbalanced in all postions if not unbalanced then back up players are not good enough no matter how much you like or hate hughes it is ther for all to see,i am a patient man and will wait and see if we progress with hughes players and his ideas.

Everyone of sane mind would agree that under normal circumstances a manager should be given at least a season.

Unfortunately for Hughes, normal cirucmstances usually include resutls that range anywhere from 'disapointing' to 'brilliant'.

Hughes' results and performances, on the whole, fall below 'disapointing' and are classed by most as 'completely unimaginable at the start of the season'.

(And despite people trying to rewrite history now, you will not find a single person, even the most vocal Hughes supporter, who prior to the start of the season thought that such results were completely unimaginable and way, way below any acceptable level)

When manager's results and performances fall into that catagory they, almost exclusively, get sacked. It's happened time and again through history. This season, last season and every season prior.

Most of them have a little more self respect than to try to deflect any responsibility from themselves for this and to try to blame it on some sort of conspiracy racked squad intent on wrecking their own careers and reputations. However, even if most did, its a pathetic defense.

Managers should get as much time as they deserve. In the intial stages anyone with half a brain gives them more flexibility than in other situations. However, to be so inflexible to say that you stick with a manager, regardless of horrendous results, performances and morale, in the face of output that would have been deemed a disgrace by EVERYONE prior to the start of the season is dogmatic and self defeating in the extreme.

Would it have been better to stick with Ball or to have got rid of him when most knew he was not up to it? Should Blackburn have stuck with Ince? There are more examples too.

To stick to the 'One season, regardless of whatever dross may be produced' is as daft a stance as the idiots who always wanted him out because he was 'a rag'

well if that was the case then sven deserved to get sacked when he did going of results in the second half of the season instead of some wanting to give him a chance?

the one reason that hughes is still manager imho is the fact that the league is still very close ther is a 10 point gap from us in 13th to everton who are 6th and i think the owners will be looking at that and giveing hughes the time to pull that back with players that will be brought in in the transfer window which for one i applude,

so are you saying that the players are mostly blameless if so please explain why these same players can pull out performances like these results but then we get beat by the likes of west brom and forest,

manchester City 6 - 0 portsmouth
manchester city 3 - 0 west ham
sunderland 0 - 3 manchester city
manchester city 3 - 0 stoke
manchester city 3 - 0 arsenal
shalke 0 - 2 manchester city
manchester city 5 - 0 hull

i for one will stay focused and not cry "get the dirty rag out"and give him the time this season to sort the team out and get to the sort of consistency were these results will be more than less off.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Sven had six months of excellent results to point to as evidence of him being able to motivate the squad and produce winning football. Hughes has absolutely nothing to point to as a positive.

The fact that the players can obviously produce good performances just shows that they are performing way below their ability for most of the time.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but THAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANAGEMENT.

The current management have shown nothing but ineptitude and failure since they got here. And a key difference to the situation with Sven is that this management team have actually taken us to the unimaginable position where relegation is actually something we have to consider as a possibility.

If you don't think that a squad that constantly under performs and regularly does not get anything near their maximum capacity (or even near an acceptbale level) on a consistent basis is not the responsibility of the manager then I'm not sure what you think the job of a manager is and what they are responsible for.

Get more than (or even equal to) the sum of the squads parts - He has failed, badly
Motivating the squad - He has failed, badly
Getting results - He has failed, badly
Improving the numerous young players - He has failed, badly (for every Ireland that has improved there is a Richards that has gone backwards under him, an Onouha who has been ignored, or a Fernandes who has gone from looking an average prospect to a mess).


Whatever criteria you use for judging the man , and I don't count being able to spend £80m on Robinho, Kompany and Zabletta (well known players) as something impressive, he has failed completely.

The 'give him time' argument has to be backed up by something more than blind faith that he will suddenly wave a magic wand and everything that is currently terrible on his watch will reverse itself. Otherwise it becomes an empty cliche with no substance to it other than buttock clenching, ignorant, eyes shut hope.

Please do not point to the players performing really well sometimes and having talent as a defence of him. That's the biggest fucking criticism of him that anyone can make.

 

[Disturbance]

The saying is , you cant polish a turd. Sven couldnt and neither can Mark hughes. Something has got to give, and even before Mark Hughes took the city job virtually the same team lost to boro 8-1.

Personally, if i was hughes i'd pay up money to the players i want out to terminate there contract now and play reserves until we sign decent quality, at least they would work for the badge and give 110%. The ones we could actually get money for id do a firesale.

Of these 'turds' in our squad, if put up for sale the hughe majority of them would be snapped up by Premier League clubs. Many of them by top half Premier League clubs.

That's because they are recognised as decent players and you will not find a football supporter in this countyr who holds the opinion that Manchester City do not have better players on their books than Newcastle, Sunderland, Stoke, West Brom, Wigan, Boro, Blackburn, West Ham and Fulham.

Most of them would probably agree we had bettet players than the likes of Pompey and Spurs too.

Still, even though you choose to completely ignore this it still doesn't matter.

Managers are not good managers because they can spend £200m and build a team who can get out of the bottom half. They are good managers because they can get the best out of what they work with. Hughes has consistently got got complete shite out of a squad that half the league would kill for the chance to have at their club.

Spot on there. Good thread.

 

[Disturbance]

oh dear what?

I don't really like Hughes, but what I saw today had very little to do with him...

If it is little to do with Hughes then why on earth are we employing him? His good looks and charm perhaps? Seemingly he might as well go for a cup of tea during the match if what takes place over the 90 minutes is not his responsibility. And thats not even taking into account what takes place during the week - you know minor things like training, coaching, motivating etc etc

Sven gets a regular kicking for the 8-1 - which he should given its was an abysmal performance and don't even get me started on that balloon farce last year or the QF against Spurs so what the hell makes Hughes exempt from getting a kicking for early round exits from this years cup competitions?

Very good point, I don't remember Sven ever trying to blame it all on the players either. Although in the Spurs QF we were done by Steve Bennett tbf.

 

[leewill31]

Sven had six months of excellent results to point to as evidence of him being able to motivate the squad and produce winning football. Hughes has absolutely nothing to point to as a positive.

The fact that the players can obviously produce good performances just shows that they are performing way below their ability for most of the time.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but THAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANAGEMENT.

The current management have shown nothing but ineptitude and failure since they got here. And a key difference to the situation with Sven is that this management team have actually taken us to the unimaginable position where relegation is actually something we have to consider as a possibility.

If you don't think that a squad that constantly under performs and regularly does not get anything near their maximum capacity (or even near an acceptbale level) on a consistent basis is not the responsibility of the manager then I'm not sure what you think the job of a manager is and what they are responsible for.

Get more than (or even equal to) the sum of the squads parts - He has failed, badly
Motivating the squad - He has failed, badly
Getting results - He has failed, badly
Improving the numerous young players - He has failed, badly (for every Ireland that has improved there is a Richards that has gone backwards under him, an Onouha who has been ignored, or a Fernandes who has gone from looking an average prospect to a mess).


Whatever criteria you use for judging the man , and I don't count being able to spend £80m on Robinho, Kompany and Zabletta (well known players) as something impressive, he has failed completely.

The 'give him time' argument has to be backed up by something more than blind faith that he will suddenly wave a magic wand and everything that is currently terrible on his watch will reverse itself. Otherwise it becomes an empty cliche with no substance to it other than buttock clenching, ignorant, eyes shut hope.

Please do not point to the players performing really well sometimes and having talent as a defence of him. That's the biggest fucking criticism of him that anyone can make.

to late for me to have an essay battle with you JMA but i will stick to what my last sentence said no matter,maybe tomorrow i will show you were you were wrong in your last post.

 

[JohnMaddocksAxe]

Sven had six months of excellent results to point to as evidence of him being able to motivate the squad and produce winning football. Hughes has absolutely nothing to point to as a positive.

The fact that the players can obviously produce good performances just shows that they are performing way below their ability for most of the time.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but THAT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE MANAGEMENT.

The current management have shown nothing but ineptitude and failure since they got here. And a key difference to the situation with Sven is that this management team have actually taken us to the unimaginable position where relegation is actually something we have to consider as a possibility.

If you don't think that a squad that constantly under performs and regularly does not get anything near their maximum capacity (or even near an acceptbale level) on a consistent basis is not the responsibility of the manager then I'm not sure what you think the job of a manager is and what they are responsible for.

Get more than (or even equal to) the sum of the squads parts - He has failed, badly
Motivating the squad - He has failed, badly
Getting results - He has failed, badly
Improving the numerous young players - He has failed, badly (for every Ireland that has improved there is a Richards that has gone backwards under him, an Onouha who has been ignored, or a Fernandes who has gone from looking an average prospect to a mess).


Whatever criteria you use for judging the man , and I don't count being able to spend £80m on Robinho, Kompany and Zabletta (well known players) as something impressive, he has failed completely.

The 'give him time' argument has to be backed up by something more than blind faith that he will suddenly wave a magic wand and everything that is currently terrible on his watch will reverse itself. Otherwise it becomes an empty cliche with no substance to it other than buttock clenching, ignorant, eyes shut hope.

Please do not point to the players performing really well sometimes and having talent as a defence of him. That's the biggest fucking criticism of him that anyone can make.

to late for me to have an essay battle with you JMA but i will stick to what my last sentence said no matter,maybe tomorrow i will show you were you were wrong in your last post.

Don't want a battle. Lol. Anyway, I'm only up watching the American Football. Night.

 

[leewill31]

to late for me to have an essay battle with you JMA but i will stick to what my last sentence said no matter,maybe tomorrow i will show you were you were wrong in your last post.

Don't want a battle. Lol. Anyway, I'm only up watching the American Football. Night.

well stop doing bloody essays then :)

 

[Mr Ed (The Stables)]

we 've done the changing manager bit too many times havent we??? some of those performances today and for most of the season have been an absolute disgrace and i will single out elano and richards as the main culprits. MH needs to be allowed to produce his own team in a fair ammount of time.

We have changed the manager to often over the last 30 years or so and we won nothing because of it. I'm not sure for all of MH's failings ie tactics, team selection, etc we can blame him for Richards poor header which led to the first goal, and Hammans throw in which led to the third. Both of those mistakes were schoolboy errors unbelievable. Elanos attitude was horrendous, I'd drop all three for our next game.

 

[Challenger1978]

JohnMaddocksAxe i agree with you mate and i'd like to add something on to that. Does anyone remember how good the players actually were when Alan Ball was manager and got us relegated . As that used to be one of the things that got to me the most back in the day when we first got relegated from the premiership.

Those players that left city a load of them ended up as captains of teams in the premiership, i can't remember the names at the moment but one was captain of west ham another was captain i think of Blackburn and others went on to do really well as well. Basically we had a bloody good bunch of players and because of piss poor management we ended up getting relegated.

And you know what its fucking killing me at the moment because i'm seeing the exact same fucking thing happen again before my eyes. The fans are divided and at each others throats, good players are under performing, the manager is showing a lack of leadership. And anything that can go against us is going against us, i really really do fear that the club is about to implode again. And like Alan Ball who did it to us last time, Lesie Mark Hughes is doing as fucking good job at destroying us.

Ball was shite but imo the problem went further.We suffered from exactly the same thing playing wise as now. Shite defenders giving away goals from nothing, a team relying on a star player who rarely performs away from home to win the games for them & players more concerned about what was happening behind the scenes. When Ball had gone what happened? We got worse & worse & worse until everyone finally realised players like Kit Symons were wankers.

Turning point was Andy Morrison. We need a PL defender to do the same job & also be a leader on the pitch.

I equate this season more with the one where Joe Royle sorted it out. I recon Hughes will turn this around if allowed to.

From what i remember when we dropped out of the premiership we were in around 30 million pounds worth of debt (a large amount in them days). And back then i dont think you got the parachute payments you get now for getting relegated. So we had a large debt and a massive drop in income, so we had to sell of all our good players and replace them with shite as we couldn't afford anything better.

 

[Disturbance]

<bump>

this should be on the first page.

 

[Anonymous]

<bump>

this should be on the first page.

Why?

Because it's a Hughes out thread?

LOL...for the record...I posted this somewhere else yesterday...

Who do we believe in...the mediocre players in the squad that know they're gone, and are acting like it....the manager who knows they're gone and seems incapable of motivating them...

You know I had an ironic laugh earlier as I contemplated the vast difference between wanting to sign players of the ilk of David Villa, and the disgrace of losing today...

One more thing, I hope those who have spent the week going on and on about certain players not being good enough have realized tonight that its tough to get worse than some of the shite we call a first team squad. I even take back what I said about Scott Parker. Him, Bellamy, RSC, Given, Toure, et al would all be a fuck of a lot better than the shite we have...

City players who played tonight, go fuck yourselves...Hughes, go fuck yourself...Cook...pull your fucking finger out and do something...if ever a club needed a figurehead, an inspiration, a leader...this it the club...now is the time...

 

[bezer57]

if MH thinks he hasnt got the players to play his system then play one they can play if they have to play 4.4.2 play it till he gets the players that can play the way he wont,s u have to work with what u have ???????