Bloody Sunday: Soldier F faces murder charges

yeseye said:
What is the idea of the MP naming him in the House of Commons,
What is he hoping to achieve or is he just trying to cause mischief?
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Yeah, not a great move...but tbh, his name has been known for a very long time. If there was any threat to him, it would have happened.
Its not like Gerry Adams is away to look him up on Facebook.....
 
Soldier F has just been found not guilty by a judge in a Northern Ireland court.
How could the prosecution be allowed to bring this case to court almost 54 years after the events of Bloody Sunday?
Almost every other event/ massacre/ bombing of "The Troubles" has been confined to history and reconciliation has helped pull Ulster into the 21st century.
Time the people who were involved in this event adopted the mantra " Forgive and Forget" and become part of modern Ulster.
 
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This one was a bit different. It wasn't paramilitary/terrorists who carried out the killing, rather the state and soldiers who were there to keep the peace. The British Government made the unprecedented step for them of admitting they were wrong and apologizing for it.

I wouldn' tell anyone to forget about getting justice for their loved one as thankfully I've never been in that position.

I do agree that it was that long ago, with evidence destroyed or never recorded, that a conviction was always going to prove difficult and probably shoudln't have been brought to court.
 
manclad said:
Soldier F has just been found not guilty by a judge in a Northern Ireland court.
How could the prosecution be allowed to bring this case to court almost 54 years after the events of Bloody Friday ?
Almost every other event/ massacre/ bombing of "The Troubles" has been confined to history and reconciliation has helped pull Ulster into the 21st century.
Time the people who were involved in this event adopted the mantra " Forgive and Forget" and become part of modern Ulster.
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...because 14 innocent people were shot dead and it has been an ongoing case....the bit in bold just isnt true.

17 other soldiers were "accused", just one was taken to court and the result is that no-one is guilty of killing 14 people, including those either walking with their arms aloft, or shot in the back trying to run away.

Im not one for what-ifs or ridiculous scenarios....but if this had happened elsewhere in the UK, on British soil (lets not forget that those ardently against this case just love to emphasise how Derry/NI is British soil) there would be a very VERY different outcome. It was a civl rights march.

Imagine, 14 people shot dead during the Sarah Everard protests....14 people shot dead during race riots...14 people shot dead at the Unite The Kingdom rally....14 people shot dead at the pro-Palestine rally?
 
IrishBlueSince92 said:
I do agree that it was that long ago, with evidence destroyed or never recorded, that a conviction was always going to prove difficult and probably shoudln't have been brought to court.
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i agree with this to some extent, but only because it was doomed to fail.....but it was and is the correct thing to do, to seek justice for what happened
 
manclad said:
Soldier F has just been found not guilty by a judge in a Northern Ireland court.
How could the prosecution be allowed to bring this case to court almost 54 years after the events of Bloody Friday ?
Almost every other event/ massacre/ bombing of "The Troubles" has been confined to history and reconciliation has helped pull Ulster into the 21st century.
Time the people who were involved in this event adopted the mantra " Forgive and Forget" and become part of modern Ulster.
Click to expand...

I think it's a good thing that while the prevailing sentiment is "forgive and move on", there's still some scope for the most egrigious crimes, the ones people can't forgive, are still held to the criminal justice system, otherwise it becomes an exercise in sweeping things under the rug and breeds resentment.

Also we've collectively decided as a country that there should be no statute of limitations for murder, you can't selectively apply that.

The problem here is the PPSNI should never have brought the case when the evidence was (according to the judge) "well short" of what's needed to secure a criminal conviction.

So we've had all this grief and bitterness from 50 years ago brought up for no reason.

Stephen Herron is the director of public prosecution and he should be the one on the hot seat for this. He has a duty to keep the wider picture in mind when he decides to bring a prosecution.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
...because 14 innocent people were shot dead and it has been an ongoing case....the bit in bold just isnt true.

17 other soldiers were "accused", just one was taken to court and the result is that no-one is guilty of killing 14 people, including those either walking with their arms aloft, or shot in the back trying to run away.

Im not one for what-ifs or ridiculous scenarios....but if this had happened elsewhere in the UK, on British soil (lets not forget that those ardently against this case just love to emphasise how Derry/NI is British soil) there would be a very VERY different outcome. It was a civl rights march.

Imagine, 14 people shot dead during the Sarah Everard protests....14 people shot dead during race riots...14 people shot dead at the Unite The Kingdom rally....14 people shot dead at the pro-Palestine rally?
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That's exactly the reaction that I expected.
South Africa had a reconciliation process after the end of Apartheid in the 1990s, otherwise the trials for crimes committed by both the state and on the other side,the ANC would have gone on forever.
It's called "forgive and forget" , instead of constantly harping on about something that happened over half a century ago.
Anyway, the main thing is that soldier F has been cleared and can now get on with the remainder of his life.
 
manclad said:
That's exactly the reaction that I expected.
South Africa had a reconciliation process after the end of Apartheid in the 1990s, otherwise the trials for crimes committed by both the state and on the other side,the ANC would have gone on forever.
It's called "forgive and forget" , instead of constantly harping on about something that happened over half a century ago.
Anyway, the main thing is that soldier F has been cleared and can now get on with the remainder of his life.
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ok, short answer cos i cant be arsed....

re South Africa, i dont really care tbh...it has no impact on this discussion and that of the Troubles.

This case didnt just come to light after the peace process...its arguably one of THE most significant events of the Troubles. I dont think seeking justice for those events is "harping on" about it.

Important footnote, as part of the good friday agreement etc, it was agreed by referendum that certain PROSECUTED people could be released, under strict terms. It DIDNT determine that all incidents/crimes under investigation would be ignored. Its important to remember that those who were released, or indeed those crimes you are suggesting were "forgot" were in actual fact investigated, tried and punished....justice was served.

Justice has not been served here...he and the rest of them are guilty as hell (insert: IMO) and he'll still have to live the rest of his miserable life under complete protection.

Edit: wanted to add these comments/statements from the Judge. He definitely thought he was guilty.
 

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domalino said:
I think it's a good thing that while the prevailing sentiment is "forgive and move on", there's still some scope for the most egrigious crimes, the ones people can't forgive, are still held to the criminal justice system, otherwise it becomes an exercise in sweeping things under the rug and breeds resentment.

Also we've collectively decided as a country that there should be no statute of limitations for murder, you can't selectively apply that.

The problem here is the PPSNI should never have brought the case when the evidence was (according to the judge) "well short" of what's needed to secure a criminal conviction.

So we've had all this grief and bitterness from 50 years ago brought up for no reason.

Stephen Herron is the director of public prosecution and he should be the one on the hot seat for this. He has a duty to keep the wider picture in mind when he decides to bring a prosecution.
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Exactly my thoughts on this particular case.
 
IrishBlueSince92 said:
Of course.

How can anyone tell someone else not to seek justice for a loved one being murdered by the state.
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And victims of the IRA were told to F-off with a published letter that makes it impossible to bring the IRA member(s) to court for a fair trial.
Serriously, how is that in any way fair?
Especially as it is the orders from higher up that the soldiers obeyed.
 
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For my friend's who were murdered (more than 1) I will never stop trying to get justice for them (not this case). I will never forget or forgive those who killed them. I can get on with my life, happily live with lots of neighbours from other religions, work with others, some I class as great friends. Will I ever forgive or forget those who murdered my friends in cold blood and the answer is no.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
ok, short answer cos i cant be arsed....

re South Africa, i dont really care tbh...it has no impact on this discussion and that of the Troubles.

This case didnt just come to light after the peace process...its arguably one of THE most significant events of the Troubles. I dont think seeking justice for those events is "harping on" about it.

Important footnote, as part of the good friday agreement etc, it was agreed by referendum that certain PROSECUTED people could be released, under strict terms. It DIDNT determine that all incidents/crimes under investigation would be ignored. Its important to remember that those who were released, or indeed those crimes you are suggesting were "forgot" were in actual fact investigated, tried and punished....justice was served.

Justice has not been served here...he and the rest of them are guilty as hell (insert: IMO) and he'll still have to live the rest of his miserable life under complete protection.

Edit: wanted to add these comments/statements from the Judge. He definitely thought he was guilty.
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He was found not guilty so therefore he is, thats how it works.
 
Roachy said:
Not guilty, a correct and just decision.
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He might have been found not guilty but it’s far from a “just decision”.

The judge said he was satisfied that soldiers had lost all sense of military discipline and opened fire with intent to kill and that "those responsible should hang their heads in shame".
But he said the case fell short of the burden of proof.

You might also want to have a read of this excerpt from the Bloody Sunday Inquiry:

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union city blue said:
He might have been found not guilty but it’s far from a “just decision”.

The judge said he was satisfied that soldiers had lost all sense of military discipline and opened fire with intent to kill and that "those responsible should hang their heads in shame".
But he said the case fell short of the burden of proof.

You might also want to have a read of this excerpt from the Bloody Sunday Inquiry:

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Doesn't change today's decision. Justice according to the law has been done.
 
union city blue said:
He might have been found not guilty but it’s far from a “just decision”.

The judge said he was satisfied that soldiers had lost all sense of military discipline and opened fire with intent to kill and that "those responsible should hang their heads in shame".
But he said the case fell short of the burden of proof.

You might also want to have a read of this excerpt from the Bloody Sunday Inquiry:

View attachment 173001
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Yep…if people are happy that they got away with it, due to old/lost/insufficient/tampered evidence then they must afford the same to “the other side”.

I come from a British military family over here…my dad died whilst serving in the mid 90s…you’d think I’d have some sort of “loyalty”….but this is frustrating, sad, disappointing and unfair.

They’ll live with knowing what they’ve done and also have significant blame for the entire troubles.

Will be interesting to see how quick it is until his name is much more public, what with there being no case to influence any more
 
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