Bobby Gunning For Karl-Heinz Rummenigge!

[Aequitas1987]

Tell me, which non-cartel clubs will gatecrash the party under FFPR? Tell me which clubs get similar TV and sponsorship revenue, and have large enough stadiums to increase their attendences and matchday turnover? Well.

Clubs like Everton, Newcastle, Villa, etc are f***ed. They can't afford to expand their stadiums or build new ones. The are hampered by the capacity of their grounds. This inturn means they are unable to buy the best players to improve their chances of finsihing in the top 4, and in so doing, gain a place in the CL.

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. Once again, FFPR is there to protect and keep the cartel at the top of the table. The rest can only dream of having a turnover(TV, sponsorship, stadium, crowds) that will get them into the CL. Nevermind competing in it when they get there.

That is what the transitional phase is for, the next couple of years while FFP is slowly implemented the big clubs will not be rocking with their knobs out splashing in the transfer market. If they are they plan to legitimize their deficit via some sneaky means and that is what UEFA needs to look out for. This transitional phase will allow these smaller clubs to increase their sporting perspective by building a team without worrying about being a feeder club. Also as quoted by various sources above that not all spending is accounted by FFP, such as expenditure on youth center development etc is not considered part of the deficit so these clubs can continue to unearth new talents.

Ok, put all the conspiracy theories aside, this cartel-nonsense etc. What would all of you who are so adamantly against FFP suggest otherwise is the best solution for the longevity of this sport? Lets forget about FFP. Oh I Know, why not we let all the current management treat their clubs as products and be door to door salesmen attempting to sell them across the world to as many foreign billionaires that we can, resulting in a great influx of money and granting them the ability to compete with the so called status quo. More individualized owners, more foreigners, less shareholders, more executive decision-making. Still continuously creating a larger divide between 'them' the feeder clubs and 'us' now the financial super-houses that are part of the status quo. Creating a constantly escalating transfer market, ripe with overpaid players, insane inflation in a time when there is a global economic crisis. Lets just fold our hands and do nothing eh and just wait until all the so called feeder clubs suffer from bankruptcy and dissolve because of their inability to compete with the billionaires. Why we are at it we might as well create a European Superior League for all the teams belonging in the cartel and noveau-rich. a.k.a the Billionaires club.

Weren't you the same guys sitting in that same chair right now criticizing the insanity of the transfer market a few years back? Calling absolute nonsense on the wages paid, now that the tables are turned -> its all fair and FFP is rubbish. Ironic. I always hear the common statement thrown around these forums about 'if you club had such a massive transition would you refuse/stop supporting it, us City fans got lucky does not make us any worse etc etc' and obviously it does not since most of you have been devout fans way before the middle-east ownership. However, it seems that City fans always want to play the 'victim' card as the only means to defend themselves. Where is the logical unbiased POV towards the sport and not only your club? City might as well might have a solid plan in order to meet the demands set forth by FFP and I am hoping its a legitimate plan and not just tricks in the accounting room.

Its easy to sit there and criticize anything and everything without providing evaluations or solutions. Criticize FFP all you want, its not a perfect model but its far better than the current scenario of the football world.

 

[SWP's back]

Tell me, which non-cartel clubs will gatecrash the party under FFPR? Tell me which clubs get similar TV and sponsorship revenue, and have large enough stadiums to increase their attendences and matchday turnover? Well.

Clubs like Everton, Newcastle, Villa, etc are f***ed. They can't afford to expand their stadiums or build new ones. The are hampered by the capacity of their grounds. This inturn means they are unable to buy the best players to improve their chances of finsihing in the top 4, and in so doing, gain a place in the CL.

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. Once again, FFPR is there to protect and keep the cartel at the top of the table. The rest can only dream of having a turnover(TV, sponsorship, stadium, crowds) that will get them into the CL. Nevermind competing in it when they get there.

That is what the transitional phase is for, the next couple of years while FFP is slowly implemented the big clubs will not be rocking with their knobs out splashing in the transfer market. If they are they plan to legitimize their deficit via some sneaky means and that is what UEFA needs to look out for. This transitional phase will allow these smaller clubs to increase their sporting perspective by building a team without worrying about being a feeder club. Also as quoted by various sources above that not all spending is accounted by FFP, such as expenditure on youth center development etc is not considered part of the deficit so these clubs can continue to unearth new talents.

Ok, put all the conspiracy theories aside, this cartel-nonsense etc. What would all of you who are so adamantly against FFP suggest otherwise is the best solution for the longevity of this sport? Lets forget about FFP. Oh I Know, why not we let all the current management treat their clubs as products and be door to door salesmen attempting to sell them across the world to as many foreign billionaires that we can, resulting in a great influx of money and granting them the ability to compete with the so called status quo. More individualized owners, more foreigners, less shareholders, more executive decision-making. Still continuously creating a larger divide between 'them' the feeder clubs and 'us' now the financial super-houses that are part of the status quo. Creating a constantly escalating transfer market, ripe with overpaid players, insane inflation in a time when there is a global economic crisis. Lets just fold our hands and do nothing eh and just wait until all the so called feeder clubs suffer from bankruptcy and dissolve because of their inability to compete with the billionaires. Why we are at it we might as well create a European Superior League for all the teams belonging in the cartel and noveau-rich. a.k.a the Billionaires club.

Weren't you the same guys sitting in that same chair right now criticizing the insanity of the transfer market a few years back? Calling absolute nonsense on the wages paid, now that the tables are turned -> its all fair and FFP is rubbish. Ironic. I always hear the common statement thrown around these forums about 'if you club had such a massive transition would you refuse/stop supporting it, us City fans got lucky does not make us any worse etc etc' and obviously it does not since most of you have been devout fans way before the middle-east ownership. However, it seems that City fans always want to play the 'victim' card as the only means to defend themselves. Where is the logical unbiased POV towards the sport and not only your club? City might as well might have a solid plan in order to meet the demands set forth by FFP and I am hoping its a legitimate plan and not just tricks in the accounting room.

Its easy to sit there and criticize anything and everything without providing evaluations or solutions. Criticize FFP all you want, its not a perfect model but its far better than the current scenario of the football world.

How is it better? I'm losing my temper with you now. It crystalises the largest clubs as being the biggest clubs for ever. It stops outside money being invested into football. It makes clubs increase prices for their fans (and then justify it as needed for FFP). FFP does NOT tackle club debt. It stops rich owners ploughing money into a team. How is that a good thing.

Utd will be fine and they have a £500m debt, City (if it were implemented this season) have no debt but would be affected. How is that either "fair" or "good"?

You can fuck off with your cartel, we will be fine and our income will outstrip yours within the decade. That's why you're all so very worried.

And no, we weren't complaining about transfers and wages a few years back, we all welcomed Chelsea competeing with the established elite so do some fucking research as you have no idea what you're on about.

 

[Mancio]

Tell me, which non-cartel clubs will gatecrash the party under FFPR? Tell me which clubs get similar TV and sponsorship revenue, and have large enough stadiums to increase their attendences and matchday turnover? Well.

Clubs like Everton, Newcastle, Villa, etc are f***ed. They can't afford to expand their stadiums or build new ones. The are hampered by the capacity of their grounds. This inturn means they are unable to buy the best players to improve their chances of finsihing in the top 4, and in so doing, gain a place in the CL.

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. Once again, FFPR is there to protect and keep the cartel at the top of the table. The rest can only dream of having a turnover(TV, sponsorship, stadium, crowds) that will get them into the CL. Nevermind competing in it when they get there.

That is what the transitional phase is for, the next couple of years while FFP is slowly implemented the big clubs will not be rocking with their knobs out splashing in the transfer market. If they are they plan to legitimize their deficit via some sneaky means and that is what UEFA needs to look out for. This transitional phase will allow these smaller clubs to increase their sporting perspective by building a team without worrying about being a feeder club. Also as quoted by various sources above that not all spending is accounted by FFP, such as expenditure on youth center development etc is not considered part of the deficit so these clubs can continue to unearth new talents.

Ok, put all the conspiracy theories aside, this cartel-nonsense etc. What would all of you who are so adamantly against FFP suggest otherwise is the best solution for the longevity of this sport? Lets forget about FFP. Oh I Know, why not we let all the current management treat their clubs as products and be door to door salesmen attempting to sell them across the world to as many foreign billionaires that we can, resulting in a great influx of money and granting them the ability to compete with the so called status quo. More individualized owners, more foreigners, less shareholders, more executive decision-making. Still continuously creating a larger divide between 'them' the feeder clubs and 'us' now the financial super-houses that are part of the status quo. Creating a constantly escalating transfer market, ripe with overpaid players, insane inflation in a time when there is a global economic crisis. Lets just fold our hands and do nothing eh and just wait until all the so called feeder clubs suffer from bankruptcy and dissolve because of their inability to compete with the billionaires. Why we are at it we might as well create a European Superior League for all the teams belonging in the cartel and noveau-rich. a.k.a the Billionaires club.

Weren't you the same guys sitting in that same chair right now criticizing the insanity of the transfer market a few years back? Calling absolute nonsense on the wages paid, now that the tables are turned -> its all fair and FFP is rubbish. Ironic. I always hear the common statement thrown around these forums about 'if you club had such a massive transition would you refuse/stop supporting it, us City fans got lucky does not make us any worse etc etc' and obviously it does not since most of you have been devout fans way before the middle-east ownership. However, it seems that City fans always want to play the 'victim' card as the only means to defend themselves. Where is the logical unbiased POV towards the sport and not only your club? City might as well might have a solid plan in order to meet the demands set forth by FFP and I am hoping its a legitimate plan and not just tricks in the accounting room.

Its easy to sit there and criticize anything and everything without providing evaluations or solutions. Criticize FFP all you want, its not a perfect model but its far better than the current scenario of the football world.

it seem to me you are full of shit.

do you really want a rule for the football longevity ? its simple :

1) "football clubs are NOT allowed to have debts".

you dont even need a point 2. end of all the shit.

 

[Ruhr]

Rummenigge as a kid

 

[MCC]

"Ok, put all the conspiracy theories aside, this cartel-nonsense etc. What would all of you who are so adamantly against FFP suggest otherwise is the best solution for the longevity of this sport?"

Err......let`s start with an equal distribution of tv cash between all clubs and in all leagues. Errr...... let`s ensure that champs league qualification money doesn`t make the gulf bigger and bigger between the teams. Fair? Well why allow it in the first place? Also, if a person wishes to splash his own cash and not put a team in massive debt and their existence under threat, let`s also call that ok. Fair?

Seems fair to me. It doesn`t seem fair to the cartel though.

 

[The Future's Blue]

Are people trying to argue the truths with a fan of a club that will get maximum profit from the new rules?

 

[toffee balls]

What do you want us to say.

What can we do.

Fucking hell pal no wonder you are detested in your own country you arrogant twat.
Now is not the time to debate FFP and if it was your lack of respect and poor timing posting on another teams forum is piss poor.

Get back in your hovell and I hope to god we kick your arses .

 

[MCC]

Rummenigge as a kid

The ginger in a dress?

 

[jrb]

Tell me, which non-cartel clubs will gatecrash the party under FFPR? Tell me which clubs get similar TV and sponsorship revenue, and have large enough stadiums to increase their attendences and matchday turnover? Well.

Clubs like Everton, Newcastle, Villa, etc are f***ed. They can't afford to expand their stadiums or build new ones. The are hampered by the capacity of their grounds. This inturn means they are unable to buy the best players to improve their chances of finsihing in the top 4, and in so doing, gain a place in the CL.

I'm sorry, but you're deluded. Once again, FFPR is there to protect and keep the cartel at the top of the table. The rest can only dream of having a turnover(TV, sponsorship, stadium, crowds) that will get them into the CL. Nevermind competing in it when they get there.

That is what the transitional phase is for, the next couple of years while FFP is slowly implemented the big clubs will not be rocking with their knobs out splashing in the transfer market. If they are they plan to legitimize their deficit via some sneaky means and that is what UEFA needs to look out for. This transitional phase will allow these smaller clubs to increase their sporting perspective by building a team without worrying about being a feeder club. Also as quoted by various sources above that not all spending is accounted by FFP, such as expenditure on youth center development etc is not considered part of the deficit so these clubs can continue to unearth new talents.

Ok, put all the conspiracy theories aside, this cartel-nonsense etc. What would all of you who are so adamantly against FFP suggest otherwise is the best solution for the longevity of this sport? Lets forget about FFP. Oh I Know, why not we let all the current management treat their clubs as products and be door to door salesmen attempting to sell them across the world to as many foreign billionaires that we can, resulting in a great influx of money and granting them the ability to compete with the so called status quo. More individualized owners, more foreigners, less shareholders, more executive decision-making. Still continuously creating a larger divide between 'them' the feeder clubs and 'us' now the financial super-houses that are part of the status quo. Creating a constantly escalating transfer market, ripe with overpaid players, insane inflation in a time when there is a global economic crisis. Lets just fold our hands and do nothing eh and just wait until all the so called feeder clubs suffer from bankruptcy and dissolve because of their inability to compete with the billionaires. Why we are at it we might as well create a European Superior League for all the teams belonging in the cartel and noveau-rich. a.k.a the Billionaires club.

Weren't you the same guys sitting in that same chair right now criticizing the insanity of the transfer market a few years back? Calling absolute nonsense on the wages paid, now that the tables are turned -> its all fair and FFP is rubbish. Ironic. I always hear the common statement thrown around these forums about 'if you club had such a massive transition would you refuse/stop supporting it, us City fans got lucky does not make us any worse etc etc' and obviously it does not since most of you have been devout fans way before the middle-east ownership. However, it seems that City fans always want to play the 'victim' card as the only means to defend themselves. Where is the logical unbiased POV towards the sport and not only your club? City might as well might have a solid plan in order to meet the demands set forth by FFP and I am hoping its a legitimate plan and not just tricks in the accounting room.

Its easy to sit there and criticize anything and everything without providing evaluations or solutions. Criticize FFP all you want, its not a perfect model but its far better than the current scenario of the football world.

Think for one minute. Without Mansour would City have attracted Sergio, Silva, Dzeko, Tevez, Kompany, De Jong, Yaya, Mario, etc? Not a f***ing chance. I still remember when Kaka bottled it. Replace City with Everton, Villa, Newcastle and a host of German and other European clubs. Because of FFPR those clubs will never have the revenue or chance to attract the best players, and in doing so, they will never compete for titles and CL places.

Platini and your magical FFPR has condemed hundreds of football clubs across Europe to a future of nothing. At least with a billionaire owner there is some hope. If you need proof look no further than City. 3 season ago we were a laughing stock. We had been for 35 years. Within 3 season we won our first cup in 35 years and now sit at the top of the PL. Would that have been achieved or possible through FFPR? Not a f***ing chance. You're living in a drean world. The only way to match and compete against the cartel is by spending 100's of millions. Unless you've got an owner with that kind of money, forget it.

 

[Aequitas1987]

"Ok, put all the conspiracy theories aside, this cartel-nonsense etc. What would all of you who are so adamantly against FFP suggest otherwise is the best solution for the longevity of this sport?"

Err......let`s start with an equal distribution of tv cash between all clubs and in all leagues. Errr...... let`s ensure that champs league qualification money doesn`t make the gulf bigger and bigger between the teams. Fair? Well why allow it in the first place? Also, if a person wishes to splash his own cash and not put a team in massive debt and their existence under threat, let`s also call that ok. Fair?

Seems fair to me. It doesn`t seem fair to the cartel though.

All these points i am definitely for and do detest UEFA for not doing anything about it. La Liga TV rights is an abomination in this sport and needs to be stripped. Making the Europa league earnings more competitive with the champions league is also a necessity especially when the ratio of its impact on the European league coefficients is much > than the TV earnings that clubs in the Europa league actually earn.

As for the last point. I have absolutely nothing against City as a club or what they had to do to stay afloat/competitive in the premier league. In this whole thread my annoyance has been at the fact that people are hating on FFP simply because they fear that their club might be the one to be gravely affected by it which might not even be the case as some of the users here have pointed out based on this 10-year plan that your management has in place.

I am not pro-foreign ownership because I am a fan of the Bundesliga and Bayern and their models have showed that clubs can stay afloat/competitive without the need to sell their club or 'commercialize it'. Yes, this comes of as arrogance but its the truth and I prefer the fact that ex-legends run Bayern and its a club run like a family, albeit a family with a very very sound business plan. That's a difference in opinion but I am not hating on you guys for it.

All these changes need to be made

- Debt needs to be limited, financial fair play will minimize deficit.
- TV rights need to be fairer
- Europa league needs to be more financially competitive

I think FFP is a change in the right direction. Due to their stadiums and fan base the established clubs do have a head start compared to the rest. But they have always had a head start even now. You can't expect every single club to find foreign ownership and become competitive.

At least for me, in the Bundesliga this would mean that Bayern and Madrid simply cant buy competition or feed any more from the talents produced by the likes of Leverkusen/Schalke/Dortmund. All of them are in the black so FFP will only affect them positively, they do not have a NEED to sell. Most bundesliga clubs have really large stadiums thanks to government subsidies and nearly always get complete revenues from selling out these stadiums. Now that they don't have to fight off ridiculous transfer sums it means that they can hold onto their key players and build a sporting project around that. They will get the necessary revenue via fan base in Germany (largest in Europe) and stadium and branding (largest commercial market in Europe) and stay competitive with Bayern and eventually with the status quo. So for a Bundesliga fan, FFP is a very good move. I can see that in other leagues where clubs do not have the large stadiums or the large fan base, or the opportunity to brand themselves such as EPL and Serie A (so many empty stadiums) that FFP could be a problem. I am hoping that other things such as the ones mentioned above are also implemented in the near future alongside FFP, such as equality of TV Rights and European Income.