Brandon Barker for Navas?

Mister Appointment said:
mosssideblue said:
Mister Appointment said:
If we're talking ideal - my ideal is that if Pellegrini's decision is to play the strongest available XI in any given cup game, then he should have to accommodate one academy player for the sake of one first team player. For me that's not a compromise. If you're a top manager, you can handle dropping one kid with a bag of potential into one position, if he's surrounded by first team regulars to guide him through. Also it's a realistic way to evaluate how a promising youngster integrates in a match situation with the first XI.

On that basis, I'd have no problem with Pellegrini taking the decision to play Barker (or Ambrose or Lopes if he wasn't on loan) for Milner (or Navas) this weekend. For me it's not a risk if the intention is to play the best X around him.


I accept your point, but only if the 1st team were cruising. The fact is were not and we need them to sort that pronto. To me that is a higher priority than blooding a youngster in a cup game against "lesser" opposition

I don't think it's about the first team cruising, it's about them being available.

Let me put it another way. If we play Barker this weekend we won't lose because we played him instead of Milner. All he needs to do is be a functional part of the first team and against lower league opposition, the rest should and 99 times out of a 100 will take care of itself.


Agree we shouldn't lose, even with two or at a push three new lads in. I'm thinking to the following week when we meet the chavs and our first team didn't play the week previous because we were playing a cup game against lower opposition, and one or two were left out.

We need our first team firing on all cylinders in London and to me, playing them together this week to iron out last weeks failings is the way ahead, otherwise they will rock up at SB without clearing their collective deamons.

Not saying don't have any on the bench, or not bring any on, but lets sort the team first.
 
Every game in every competition in every season, you can say that we need to play our strongest team, or otherwise we could lose.

If we have 15 or 16 £20 million players who have all won titles, played in World Cups, god knows what, and a bunch of kids who have barely ever played in the first team, then those kids are NEVER part of our strongest team, even when they're 21-22, because they will never play, because we always play our strongest team.

We either fuck the academy off as producing City players, or we start to take a chance playing one or two kids, which means not always playing our strongest team .
 
Damocles said:
With that said, my zealotry aside still doesn't excuse our local record. It means more to me than others because it comes back to the very core of why I personally am a City fan but this over enthusiasm doesn't diminish the point that our conveyor belt has stopped and there are little to no indications that we're willing to gamble on the Academy to help make the numbers for the first team when injuries hit - a thing that the Academy is designed to do.
I think the real reason we haven't brought many through of late, is just that we had a period 4 or 5 years ago where we weren't developing them, a good youth cup side rarely translates into a good senior squad. What the club decided to do (in my opinion) was right off a period of time to get it right for the future, we've let plenty go, and while other clubs come here and play with more of our academy than we do, you have to look at the level they are now playing at, with the greatest respect to Burnley, and Sheff Wednesday, these players are at their level, Guidetti is another, none of them were good enough. The only one that really stands out from the last few years is Sturridge, others are making a career, but they weren't for the very top, and even Sturridge ultimately didn't make it at Chelsea.

I think the club just after the takeover, identified a need to improve what we were producing, and that is now coming to fruition, Lopes has played, and he's away getting good experience now, and I'm sure will come back, and be like a new signing next season, others may do the same, Rekik, Denayer etc.

The current group of 18 year olds are more talented, and a step up from what we've had for the last few years, which is why they are beating teams who are more experienced and/or older. If we fail to integrate some of these over the next 12-24 months it will be disappointing, I'm sure some will go out on loan still, but that's not bad, so long as they head to teams where they will be used, and at a level better than say Barnsley (or Celtic). Chelsea were loaning players out within the PL a number of years ago, and few if any have made it at Chelsea, I don't think we ever have loaned out to a PL side (correct me if I'm wrong), which I think tells you whether they were good enough or not. I suspect there will be more interest for this current group.

I understand the frustration over it, but I do think we've had a period, those now in the 20-23 age group at the club, who just weren't up to the top level, and developing those below that took priority, and hopefully that policy will bare fruits in the very near future, and hopefully the new facilities, will encourage everyone to develop better, if it doesn't they will soon be found out, and shipped out.
 
Tommorows friendly should be their chance to fight and show they can be trusted for Middlesborough. Ideally we should have Barker play one half at LW, then Celina take over for the second half. Give them a chance to show they should be on the bench for the cup game.
 
Ray78 said:
The likes of Barker, Pozo, Ambrose et all haven't been training long with the first team. They have to gain the trust of both manager and teammates and get used to the team's pattern of play. The only way for that to happen is to integrate them during pre season. Not in the middle of the season.


better not play Bony till august based on your theory

people saying that the 1st team arent playing to their top level and need to play to get back into form
Maybe giving a kid whos got no fear a go might give the 1st team a shot in the arm that they need especially if the young kid does well
Also I think it is great game to bring one youngster in as Boro have a few players who are on loan from chelsea's academy so our young players may have played against them before so wont feel as overawed
 
noely said:
Ray78 said:
The likes of Barker, Pozo, Ambrose et all haven't been training long with the first team. They have to gain the trust of both manager and teammates and get used to the team's pattern of play. The only way for that to happen is to integrate them during pre season. Not in the middle of the season.


better not play Bony till august based on your theory

people saying that the 1st team arent playing to their top level and need to play to get back into form
Maybe giving a kid whos got no fear a go might give the 1st team a shot in the arm that they need especially if the young kid does well
Also I think it is great game to bring one youngster in as Boro have a few players who are on loan from chelsea's academy so our young players may have played against them before so wont feel as overawed

Bony has 9 years professional experience 54 game in the Premier League and will have a bit more of a clue than 18 year old lad who is still cutting his teeth. It will not take Bony long to get to grips with us. If you want to destroy a kids career then throwing him in a middle of the title race is a very good start imho.
 
Ray78 said:
noely said:
Ray78 said:
The likes of Barker, Pozo, Ambrose et all haven't been training long with the first team. They have to gain the trust of both manager and teammates and get used to the team's pattern of play. The only way for that to happen is to integrate them during pre season. Not in the middle of the season.


better not play Bony till august based on your theory

people saying that the 1st team arent playing to their top level and need to play to get back into form
Maybe giving a kid whos got no fear a go might give the 1st team a shot in the arm that they need especially if the young kid does well
Also I think it is great game to bring one youngster in as Boro have a few players who are on loan from chelsea's academy so our young players may have played against them before so wont feel as overawed

Bony has 9 years professional experience 54 game in the Premier League and will have a bit more of a clue than 18 year old lad who is still cutting his teeth. It will not take Bony long to get to grips with us. If you want to destroy a kids career then throwing him in a middle of the title race is a very good start imho.

not asking to throw him into a title race I'm saying lets play him in the cup game see what he's like
 
noely said:
Ray78 said:
noely said:
better not play Bony till august based on your theory

people saying that the 1st team arent playing to their top level and need to play to get back into form
Maybe giving a kid whos got no fear a go might give the 1st team a shot in the arm that they need especially if the young kid does well
Also I think it is great game to bring one youngster in as Boro have a few players who are on loan from chelsea's academy so our young players may have played against them before so wont feel as overawed

Bony has 9 years professional experience 54 game in the Premier League and will have a bit more of a clue than 18 year old lad who is still cutting his teeth. It will not take Bony long to get to grips with us. If you want to destroy a kids career then throwing him in a middle of the title race is a very good start imho.

not asking to throw him into a title race I'm saying lets play him in the cup game see what he's like

Not when we are playing a side who is going for promotion to the top flight and is a side managed by one of Mourinho's mates. We will see him tomorrow but I doubt he will get any game time against Middlesbrough.
 
Ray78 said:
noely said:
Ray78 said:
Bony has 9 years professional experience 54 game in the Premier League and will have a bit more of a clue than 18 year old lad who is still cutting his teeth. It will not take Bony long to get to grips with us. If you want to destroy a kids career then throwing him in a middle of the title race is a very good start imho.

not asking to throw him into a title race I'm saying lets play him in the cup game see what he's like

Not when we are playing a side who is going for promotion to the top flight and is a side managed by one of Mourinho's mates. We will see him tomorrow but I doubt he will get any game time against Middlesbrough.

Seriously ? So no youth players against championship teams now. It's just another excuse why is everyone so scared about playing a bright young player for even twenty minutes agaisnt boro - a championship team.I've heard he can't play league games as we might lose because of it, he can't play cup games as we could also lose. I'm guessing same for champions league ? We could lose with or without him.

When are they gonna play then ? We may aswell scrap the academy now. If barkely was in the city youth team now, posters on here wouldn't want him to play.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
Ray78 said:
noely said:
not asking to throw him into a title race I'm saying lets play him in the cup game see what he's like

Not when we are playing a side who is going for promotion to the top flight and is a side managed by one of Mourinho's mates. We will see him tomorrow but I doubt he will get any game time against Middlesbrough.

Seriously ? So no youth players against championship teams now. It's just another excuse why is everyone so scared about playing a bright young player for even twenty minutes agaisnt boro - a championship team.I've heard he can't play league games as we might lose because of it, he can't play cup games as we could also lose. I'm guessing same for champions league ? We could lose with or without him.

When are they gonna play then ? We may aswell scrap the academy now. If barkely was in the city youth team now, posters on here wouldn't want him to play.

This a championship team that has academy players on loan to them from other clubs
 

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