Brandon Barker for Navas?

I would love to have a smoke of what the OP is smoking. Navas was disappointing on Sunday with taking extra touches before any balls were crossed in as has been mentioned a few times on here, but Barker is not ready to replace anyone. Would be good to give him some 1st team experience, even if it is just being on the bench against Boro would do him the world of good.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
what harm could it do for the boro game.. We are playing a championship side. We can play barker and then the first team. He deserves a chance. If we can't give a player like him at least ten minutes then whats the point in the academy.

someone should tell him.
 
My personal opinion is that we are doing a great job with the eds team squad and should not be rushed this season, yes some places on the bench would be great for some of them this year ,looking forward with great anticipation for some of these young blues.
 
Again we're being guilty over over-hyping a youngster. Pozo was in awesome form for the EDS but his introduction to the first team showed the gap between the levels and he has a way to go before you'd be throwing him in to the side. Navas has a lot of experience - not always as a starter but he's played in big games and he's made an impact. His pace alone is an asset and though you can question his form etc I don't see Barker right now being the man to replace him.

I'd have him on the bench for Boro. I'd play our strongest 11 to start with, the side we aim to play at Chelsea and then ideally get a lead and introduce Barker and some younger players.

We're out of form as a squad and we need to address that by putting in a great performance against Boro and taking that into the game against the chavs.
 
As much as I would like to see Barker get a few minutes the lad is nowhere near ready for regular first team action and starts.
 
I'm all for giving Barker a go, but if we don't have midfielders willing to bust a gut to get into the box then his crosses will go the same way as Navas.
 
its a Barm said:
My personal opinion is that we are doing a great job with the eds team squad

What is your criteria for doing a great job compared to a poor job?

I can't think of a single metric by which our youth policy is doing "great" outside of success at youth levels. But it doesn't matter if you win every single trophy in the world at U21 down the U9s, the point is to provide players who challenge for the first team squad.

We haven't done that. Well we have, but we decided not to play them so they either went elsewhere or got put out on loan. Some like Rekik to the point where it's obvious to all and sundry that they have no desire to come back and feel their time is better spent at a club that will give them an opportunity to play. Yet another player who will walk into the nationals and say "young players shouldn't go to City". Next year we have a decision to make on Lopes and I have no doubt that we'll put him out on loan again to further delay the inevitable, hoping that somebody else will make the tough call to put him into the squad. He certainly isn't getting in front of Nasri or Silva therefore according to most on here he isn't good enough and we should let him go again. Doesn't matter that he's one of the best young prospects in world football, just that we already have better in our ranks so it's a step back.

The last Academy player to break into our squad was Dedryck Boyata. He's now 24. And he's only here because of homegrown rules. Oh and City legend Alex Nimely who was apparently in our squad last season.

On numerous occasions this year we have played teams who have more City Academy graduates in their squad as we do.

Barker is about the fifth best player in that squad. He might be lucky and get on the bench because he's a Manc and it's good for the image. He isn't ready for a first team place in terms of he isn't a top PL talent and if we're not making allowances for being a homegrown player then he'll never in a million years be as good as a Reus or the like of.

There's so many people with their head in the sand about this. They presume that because it's City then "well they know what they're doing don't they?, "oh we'll play them when they're ready" and other such cliches with absolutely nothing but blind faith to back that up. Then they point to Pozo and say "well he played Pozo didn't he?".
No, Pozo has started once against Leicester and was subbed to put on a winger and the only reason that happened was because it was him or a midfielder up front. Of course he was then dropped and they put a midfielder up front. So essentially they started our young and tricky attacking midfielder against Leicester in winter away from home, played him out of position then subbed him after an hour. I bet James Wilson and Tyler Blackett are well jealous. He has only ever being used properly in his City career once and that was when we were about 5 up against Sheff Wed at home in the League Cup and he got 20 minutes.

We haven't broken an Academy player through in the 7 years since the takeover but for some reason it's all "well I trust them" with no reason to do so. Apparently some people believe that the Academy only started when we built that new building and nothing before that counts or it is all going to be different because we've moved offices. Not sure what they thought Carrington and Platt Lane was for.

I don't know a single person who pays attention to the Academy who isn't even a bit worried about this now and many are along my lines of thinking, and we're City fans. People retweet bullshit "yay I got on the bench" messages from the kids on Twitter and are all like SEE? DO YOU SEE HOW HAPPY HE IS? like they would possibly sit on Twitter saying "yeah fuck this club". Being an unused sub when we're 3 goals up and Scott Sinclair warms up might be a dream come true for you but these lads had their pick of all the clubs in the world and they're not City fans. If I was a player and I had a choice between City and most clubs now I'd probably not end up at City because I don't see the progression system that the Uniteds, Barcas and Ajaxs have into their first team squad. We've done the thing that we're best known for post-takeover and slapped around a bunch of money and said that this is a big intention of ours yet we haven't actually backed this up with anything but money. Spending £200m on a new building isn't exactly impressive when your owner is a trillionaire monarch and we haven't produced a player for 7 years. What we need is to actually produce some talent. This whole idea of "well we'll just win this trophy then things will be fine" is cockgobble, the title race will never be easy, there will never be an easy time to blood new talent into a league game, we will always need to win every game.

People like to point at Soriano and Begiristan and declare we're the new Barca or that we're following their model. We're nothing of the sort, we're the new Chelsea. We talk about youth for 10 years and produce Michael Mancienne then buy in a better defender.
 
Damocles said:
its a Barm said:
My personal opinion is that we are doing a great job with the eds team squad

What is your criteria for doing a great job compared to a poor job?

I can't think of a single metric by which our youth policy is doing "great" outside of success at youth levels. But it doesn't matter if you win every single trophy in the world at U21 down the U9s, the point is to provide players who challenge for the first team squad.

We haven't done that. Well we have, but we decided not to play them so they either went elsewhere or got put out on loan. Some like Rekik to the point where it's obvious to all and sundry that they have no desire to come back and feel their time is better spent at a club that will give them an opportunity to play. Yet another player who will walk into the nationals and say "young players shouldn't go to City". Next year we have a decision to make on Lopes and I have no doubt that we'll put him out on loan again to further delay the inevitable, hoping that somebody else will make the tough call to put him into the squad. He certainly isn't getting in front of Nasri or Silva therefore according to most on here he isn't good enough and we should let him go again. Doesn't matter that he's one of the best young prospects in world football, just that we already have better in our ranks so it's a step back.

The last Academy player to break into our squad was Dedryck Boyata. He's now 24. And he's only here because of homegrown rules. Oh and City legend Alex Nimely who was apparently in our squad last season.

On numerous occasions this year we have played teams who have more City Academy graduates in their squad as we do.

Barker is about the fifth best player in that squad. He might be lucky and get on the bench because he's a Manc and it's good for the image. He isn't ready for a first team place in terms of he isn't a top PL talent and if we're not making allowances for being a homegrown player then he'll never in a million years be as good as a Reus or the like of.

There's so many people with their head in the sand about this. They presume that because it's City then "well they know what they're doing don't they?, "oh we'll play them when they're ready" and other such cliches with absolutely nothing but blind faith to back that up. Then they point to Pozo and say "well he played Pozo didn't he?".
No, Pozo has started once against Leicester and was subbed to put on a winger and the only reason that happened was because it was him or a midfielder up front. Of course he was then dropped and they put a midfielder up front. So essentially they started our young and tricky attacking midfielder against Leicester in winter away from home, played him out of position then subbed him after an hour. I bet James Wilson and Tyler Blackett are well jealous. He has only ever being used properly in his City career once and that was when we were about 5 up against Sheff Wed at home in the League Cup and he got 20 minutes.

We haven't broken an Academy player through in the 7 years since the takeover but for some reason it's all "well I trust them" with no reason to do so. Apparently some people believe that the Academy only started when we built that new building and nothing before that counts or it is all going to be different because we've moved offices. Not sure what they thought Carrington and Platt Lane was for.

I don't know a single person who pays attention to the Academy who isn't even a bit worried about this now and many are along my lines of thinking, and we're City fans. People retweet bullshit "yay I got on the bench" messages from the kids on Twitter and are all like SEE? DO YOU SEE HOW HAPPY HE IS? like they would possibly sit on Twitter saying "yeah fuck this club". Being an unused sub when we're 3 goals up and Scott Sinclair warms up might be a dream come true for you but these lads had their pick of all the clubs in the world and they're not City fans. If I was a player and I had a choice between City and most clubs now I'd probably not end up at City because I don't see the progression system that the Uniteds, Barcas and Ajaxs have into their first team squad. We've done the thing that we're best known for post-takeover and slapped around a bunch of money and said that this is a big intention of ours yet we haven't actually backed this up with anything but money. Spending £200m on a new building isn't exactly impressive when your owner is a trillionaire monarch and we haven't produced a player for 7 years. What we need is to actually produce some talent. This whole idea of "well we'll just win this trophy then things will be fine" is cockgobble, the title race will never be easy, there will never be an easy time to blood new talent into a league game, we will always need to win every game.

People like to point at Soriano and Begiristan and declare we're the new Barca or that we're following their model. We're nothing of the sort, we're the new Chelsea. We talk about youth for 10 years and produce Michael Mancienne then buy in a better defender.

Well done. The best post I've read on here for a long, long time. Couldn’t agree more with anything you've said.

Of all that, my biggest gripe and the one that makes me so angry is Karim Rekik. This lad is a young, left-footed centre half who has gone on loan to a Dutch club of massive stature and captained them for a season. He should have been in the squad this season here and we needn’t have bought Mangala, because he's just as good (not that I don’t rate Managla, just we needn’t have bought him). Makes me feel sick that he will ultimately leave the club and go on to great things elsewhere.
 
Damocles said:
People like to point at Soriano and Begiristan and declare we're the new Barca or that we're following their model. We're nothing of the sort, we're the new Chelsea. We talk about youth for 10 years and produce Michael Mancienne then buy in a better defender.

That isn't such a bad thing maybe. Chelsea are showing huge profits on a lot of those players which has been incredibly beneficial to them with regards FFP. We are doing what they did but on an even bigger scale and long term the benefits to us could be even greater.

I think in terms of actually producing players for the first team, I've said to before, but more than anything else it's a lottery. You invest in a whole heap of young players knowing that overwhelmingly vast majority won't make it at City, but you do it for the one diamond. Even if one of the current EDS or Under 18's team makes it as a first team regular at City whilst we continue winning trophies then that will be success in my eyes.

The romantic notion of a generation like the golden Barca one or the golden rags one is far more about luck then about design.
 

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