IanBishopsHaircut said:You think in the space of 6 years we should be turning around world class talent then?
And that's exactly it...they need to be world class talent if they are in with a chance of breaking into our first team
If they are good enough...they will get their chance
Damocles said:IanBishopsHaircut said:You think in the space of 6 years we should be turning around world class talent then?
I think in 6 years of unlimited funding we should have produced one player who is of equal or greater value to our squad as Scott Sinclair, yes.
And that's exactly it...they need to be world class talent if they are in with a chance of breaking into our first team
World class talents like Richard Wright, Willy Cabellero, Matilja Nastasic, Scott Sinclair, Bacary Sagna and Dedryck Boyata. Not forgetting the previous six years worth of world class talent like Adam Johnson, Jack Rodwell, David Pizarro, Owen Hargreaves, Stuart Taylor and the like?
My point is that you don't need to be world class to get into a top squad, especially if you're home grown. Unless we're calling Wes Brown world class
If they are good enough...they will get their chance
I literally said that people would say those exact words in my first post. It's a cliche, it means nothing, it's blind faith based on nothing at all.
Damocles said:Mister Appointment said:Damocles said:People like to point at Soriano and Begiristan and declare we're the new Barca or that we're following their model. We're nothing of the sort, we're the new Chelsea. We talk about youth for 10 years and produce Michael Mancienne then buy in a better defender.
That isn't such a bad thing maybe. Chelsea are showing huge profits on a lot of those players which has been incredibly beneficial to them with regards FFP. We are doing what they did but on an even bigger scale and long term the benefits to us could be even greater.
I think in terms of actually producing players for the first team, I've said to before, but more than anything else it's a lottery. You invest in a whole heap of young players knowing that overwhelmingly vast majority won't make it at City, but you do it for the one diamond. Even if one of the current EDS or Under 18's team makes it as a first team regular at City whilst we continue winning trophies then that will be success in my eyes.
The romantic notion of a generation like the golden Barca one or the golden rags one is far more about luck then about design.
Agreed with all of that, though if we only get a single player into our squad from this exceptionally talented group of youngsters then we have failed. Let's remember that City went through a period between 2008-2012 of bringing in every top youngster that it could get anywhere near, and many of our players turned down moves to proven youth systems in order to gamble that we were as good as our word. Additionally, we have 0 homegrown players currently that aren't coat stands and the regulations require us to have some. We should be looking at filling those 4 spots in the squad from this generation and we could do it too without much hassle in my opinion. 5 or 10 games a season for a couple of kids isn't going to decide a title but it could provide an enthusiasm that our squad lacks sometimes as well as increasing internal competition.
Is there anything more exciting in football than watching a young homegrown lad get on the pitch and make a name for himself? It's the type of thing that lifts whole clubs when it happens, the fans are more enthusiastic, the players are more up for it, the whole place buzzes around. Sturridge did give us a bit of a lift when he broke through and linked with Robinho in that Blackburn game. SWP and Johnson were another pair who gave the whole club a little boost. Nothing drastic and major but just a bit more enthusiasm from all involved.
My gripe is that to win the lottery you have to buy a ticket and I'm not sure if that's what we're doing.
Mister Appointment said:Damocles said:Mister Appointment said:That isn't such a bad thing maybe. Chelsea are showing huge profits on a lot of those players which has been incredibly beneficial to them with regards FFP. We are doing what they did but on an even bigger scale and long term the benefits to us could be even greater.
I think in terms of actually producing players for the first team, I've said to before, but more than anything else it's a lottery. You invest in a whole heap of young players knowing that overwhelmingly vast majority won't make it at City, but you do it for the one diamond. Even if one of the current EDS or Under 18's team makes it as a first team regular at City whilst we continue winning trophies then that will be success in my eyes.
The romantic notion of a generation like the golden Barca one or the golden rags one is far more about luck then about design.
Agreed with all of that, though if we only get a single player into our squad from this exceptionally talented group of youngsters then we have failed. Let's remember that City went through a period between 2008-2012 of bringing in every top youngster that it could get anywhere near, and many of our players turned down moves to proven youth systems in order to gamble that we were as good as our word. Additionally, we have 0 homegrown players currently that aren't coat stands and the regulations require us to have some. We should be looking at filling those 4 spots in the squad from this generation and we could do it too without much hassle in my opinion. 5 or 10 games a season for a couple of kids isn't going to decide a title but it could provide an enthusiasm that our squad lacks sometimes as well as increasing internal competition.
Is there anything more exciting in football than watching a young homegrown lad get on the pitch and make a name for himself? It's the type of thing that lifts whole clubs when it happens, the fans are more enthusiastic, the players are more up for it, the whole place buzzes around. Sturridge did give us a bit of a lift when he broke through and linked with Robinho in that Blackburn game. SWP and Johnson were another pair who gave the whole club a little boost. Nothing drastic and major but just a bit more enthusiasm from all involved.
My gripe is that to win the lottery you have to buy a ticket and I'm not sure if that's what we're doing.
I see fully where you're coming from but the reality is it's much harder at the very top to integrate players because the pressure is much higher. I'm an old romantic so I can see where you're coming from and I'll be deeply disappointed if we don't see players coming through in the next two or three years - but at the same time unless the player is exceptional i'm not prepared to risk success on the pitch to blood a youngster for the sake of it.
Honestly it's hard to know when a player is good enough/ready anyway. From what I've seen of Barker, Kelechi, Lopes, and even Angelinho - I'd have them in the squad ahead of certain senior players, however the powers that be how make those calls haven't so far made them.
Mister Appointment said:Damocles said:Mister Appointment said:That isn't such a bad thing maybe. Chelsea are showing huge profits on a lot of those players which has been incredibly beneficial to them with regards FFP. We are doing what they did but on an even bigger scale and long term the benefits to us could be even greater.
I think in terms of actually producing players for the first team, I've said to before, but more than anything else it's a lottery. You invest in a whole heap of young players knowing that overwhelmingly vast majority won't make it at City, but you do it for the one diamond. Even if one of the current EDS or Under 18's team makes it as a first team regular at City whilst we continue winning trophies then that will be success in my eyes.
The romantic notion of a generation like the golden Barca one or the golden rags one is far more about luck then about design.
Agreed with all of that, though if we only get a single player into our squad from this exceptionally talented group of youngsters then we have failed. Let's remember that City went through a period between 2008-2012 of bringing in every top youngster that it could get anywhere near, and many of our players turned down moves to proven youth systems in order to gamble that we were as good as our word. Additionally, we have 0 homegrown players currently that aren't coat stands and the regulations require us to have some. We should be looking at filling those 4 spots in the squad from this generation and we could do it too without much hassle in my opinion. 5 or 10 games a season for a couple of kids isn't going to decide a title but it could provide an enthusiasm that our squad lacks sometimes as well as increasing internal competition.
Is there anything more exciting in football than watching a young homegrown lad get on the pitch and make a name for himself? It's the type of thing that lifts whole clubs when it happens, the fans are more enthusiastic, the players are more up for it, the whole place buzzes around. Sturridge did give us a bit of a lift when he broke through and linked with Robinho in that Blackburn game. SWP and Johnson were another pair who gave the whole club a little boost. Nothing drastic and major but just a bit more enthusiasm from all involved.
My gripe is that to win the lottery you have to buy a ticket and I'm not sure if that's what we're doing.
I see fully where you're coming from but the reality is it's much harder at the very top to integrate players because the pressure is much higher. I'm an old romantic so I can see where you're coming from and I'll be deeply disappointed if we don't see players coming through in the next two or three years - but at the same time unless the player is exceptional i'm not prepared to risk success on the pitch to blood a youngster for the sake of it.
Honestly it's hard to know when a player is good enough/ready anyway. From what I've seen of Barker, Kelechi, Lopes, and even Angelinho - I'd have them in the squad ahead of certain senior players, however the powers that be how make those calls haven't so far made them.