Britain's secret terror force. BBC1 now..

[Bovril]

Unbelievable stuff. Horrible horrible viewing.

Tale after tale of the brave British army acting like fucking murdering scum, cowards, and shit houses. And boasting about it.

One day these bastards will rot in a jail.

Utter utter cowards and scum, who wouldn't in a million years have behaved like this if they didn't have a gun to hide behind.

Making me ashamed to be born in this country.

I did tours of N.Ireland in South Armagh and Tyrone. I was there when the IRA decided to murder 8 British Soldiers coming back off leave after a well earned rest in Ballygawly. I was in South Armagh when the news had come in that a bomb had gone off in Omagh !!! now OP do I read like a murderer ??? am I a Nazi ?? I am currently in Afghanistan so according to some on here that makes me a bully and thick that randomly shoot "Brown people" !!! Fuckwits like you can spout your shite on here with freedom etc etc The BBC has had an agenda against the British forces for many years, you didn't go out on the streets as an 18 year old shitting yourself in case you got shot or blew up did you ... No because you havn't and wouldn't have the bottle !!! so next time you want to berate the very same people who give you the life you have why don't you go to a Pub that is frequented by our good soldiers and voice your concerns ....... No you wouldn't would you, you sad boy.

 

[Ducado]

This might seem a churlish thing to say but in terms of loss of life it was a very small loss of life, consider the losses (to all sides) in say Afghanistan, over 60,000 people have been killed in the on going drug war in Mexico

 

[mad4city]

far from helping to bring about an end to the Troubles (as was suggested at the end of the documentary), they actually prolonged them!

Bloody hell, that's controversial. You mean the presence of British forces in Northern Ireland made things worse? Tin hat time.

In my opinion two major events galvanised support for nationalist paramilitary groups more than anything else..Bloody Sunday and the introduction of internment.Internment could have been effective if the British had held only terrorists but there were so many innocents held and tortured it truly beggars belief,membership of the GAA was enough for some to be held.

That's true enough, Shadz. With internment, the British were copying the tactic that de Valera had successfully employed decades earlier to quell the Official IRA. The difference was at Dev's Intelligence was very good but the British Army's was woefully clumsy.

And Skashion, next time you quote me, pay please pay me the courtesy of quoting the entire sentence rather than just shot stirring.
If you had quoted properly, it would be clear that I was referring to those bungling f**kwits, the MRF, and not the entire British Army.

 

[mammutly]

Did the IRA kill innocent civilians for political reasons? YES

Did Protestant paramilitaries kill innocent civilians for political reasons? YES

The above facts are an undeniable part of the history of NI

These " revelations" simply confirm that the British Army also killed civilians for political reasons.

All sides in The Troubles thought they had a cause or a motive worth murdering for. They were all wrong and part of moving on is about people on all sides admitting that. You can argue forever about who was more right or more wrong, but what you cannot do is compare murders as more or less justified according to who did them. The start and the end point has to be that an innocent person was killed and there can be no justification for that in a civilised society.

The British state need to stand up and accept responsibility for what they did just like every other party in the conflict. It's the only way forward.

 

[mad4city]

According to Malcolm Sutton's Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland:[141]
Of those killed by British security forces:
187 (~51.5%) were civilians
145 (~39.9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
18 (~4.9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
13 (~3.5%) were fellow members of the British security forces

Of those killed by republican paramilitaries:
1080 (~52%) were members of the British security forces
728 (~35%) were civilians
187 (~9%) were members of republican paramilitaries
56 (~2.7%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
10 (~0.4%) were members of the Irish security forces

Of those killed by loyalist paramilitaries:
868 (~85.4%) were civilians
93 (~9%) were members of loyalist paramilitaries
41 (~4%) were members of republican paramilitaries
14 (~1.3%) were members of the British security forces

I've bolded the civilians bit not to single any side out as being good/bad or whatever but to draw attention to the fact it is always the innocent that suffer most.

Every debate ends up being reductive where you get "it was terrible when those people in Belfast died" being met immediately with "well what about those who died in Antrim" or whichever location you'd like to chose.

Whilst I'm no expert, I have immediate family who are Northern Irish and have been over there on a very regular basis over the last 15 years, so have some limited knowledge. Having read the thread, it saddens me there are so many ill informed opinions being presented here and people still wanting to "take sides".

Well said.

 

[blueinsa]

I'm glad you're done with me now, it's difficult to keep civil when discussing such things as im an apologist for terrorist cowardice and murder.

Edited for accuracy!

OP is a cockwomble of the very highest order!

 

[Blue life]

Unbelievable stuff. Horrible horrible viewing.

Tale after tale of the brave British army acting like fucking murdering scum, cowards, and shit houses. And boasting about it.

One day these bastards will rot in a jail.

Utter utter cowards and scum, who wouldn't in a million years have behaved like this if they didn't have a gun to hide behind.

Making me ashamed to be born in this country.

do one to france then you shit stirring wannabe

you know f**k all about this other than what the programme tells you - they got what was owed to them and still got away lightly

 

[stonerblue]

If those guys were handpicked, it doesn't say much for the rest of the British Army.
Not only did they fail spectacularly in their mission ("to draw the IRA out and minimise their operations" - IRA activities actually went UP during their campaign and the organisation continued for decades) but they're actually boasting about their incompetence!

The priest interviewed made a very telling comment that was glossed over by the Panorama team. His suggestion that by committing these acts and covering them up with the official tale that they were either defending themselves (patently untrue, by all available evidence) or, in some instances, attributing the shootings to Loyalist paramilitaries, they only furthered the mistrusts between the various parties in Northern Ireland. In other words, far from helping to bring about an end to the Troubles (as was suggested at the end of the documentary), they actually prolonged them!

Mistakes get made in war and, as mistakes in that war go, this was a king-sized f**k up. Only Thatcher's mishandling of the hunger strikes matches it for incompetence.

Who'd have thought that indiscriminate killing of civilians by an occupying army would lead to a rise in the number of recruits to the enemy?
Wonder if that has happened anywhere else recently.

 

[cyberblue]

wa dont have a vary good record abroad as well as N i from Kenya to Cyprus .Malaysa & on to the recent conflicts .the problem is not the servicemen but the politicians .the troops are sent into an impossible situation as the locals dont want the army in there country. the IRA for eg barley existed till the troops went in .Politicans are quick to send in the troops then abandon them when something goes wrong

 

[Challenger1978]

40 years ago if you walked down the street with a machine gun and shot at random strangers you would be tried, convicted, and imprisoned. As you would today.

Unless you were a British soldier. Then you would be proclaimed a hero.

I've done this dance before with you and tried to have a reasonable debate with you on similar subjects.

It all comes down though to you being an utter utter unreasonable trolling ****.

I hope a squaddie from 40 years ago (like my dad) gets hold of you and gives you the kicking of your life and leaves you shitting in a bag for the rest of it.<br /><br />-- Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:58 am --<br /><br />

wa dont have a vary good record abroad as well as N i from Kenya to Cyprus .Malaysa & on to the recent conflicts .the problem is not the servicemen but the politicians .the troops are sent into an impossible situation as the locals dont want the army in there country. the IRA for eg barley existed till the troops went in .Politicans are quick to send in the troops then abandon them when something goes wrong

Spot fucking on, the politicians need to stop trying to use the Army as an international police force.