British jihadists killed in RAF drone strike

[Always Ali]

It's not a peaceful religion, it has peaceful followers, the problem in 2015 is that people who follow an organised religion seem to ignore the bits they don't like and some use parts for their own ends even if they don't actually believe them, I agree with you that most religions taken from original text are not peaceful

you would have thought that a God that gave plenty of signs of his existence in the past looking down on this fiasco might tell a few of these bellends to behave themselves, there are only two explanations, he doesn't exist or he doesn't care, you would think this fact alone would prevent people worshiping him or lopping people's heads off in his name

The perfect "get out clause" was placed for this very thought....."Never again will God interfere in human affairs", or words to that effect!

It's pathetic, yet the gullible suck this shit up, to the cost of civilized society. Then certain factions choose to "interpret" this bollocks, written by men 2000 years ago (or even more recently), to control the weak minded!

 

[Damocles]

Not as fucking stupid as revealing the sources inadvertently to appease some busy cunts.

I know you're generally a tongue in cheek type of poster but the idea that the Government can essentially execute whomever they want at whatever time they want and then use a blanket excuse of intelligence should be extremely alarming for everybody in the country.

As somebody who used to mess about in the world of computer security and cryptography, a world that tends to do things that aren't illegal but that a Government doesn't like people doing unless they work for them directly, these types of things set off alarm bells in my head.

Most accept that the Government and the intelligence agencies will have 95% of the iceberg underwater. Glimpsing at how the 5% is now becoming gradually more vicious and illegal prmpts questions on what the bottom 5% are doing.

 

[The perfect fumble]

The perfect fumble said: ↑
If you found out that these guys were killed, not because they were involved in any plot here, but to discourage other British citizens joining them, that would be OK with you?

"SWP's back, post: 8862527, member: 21645"Why the hypothetical?

Because that's the rationale the fundamentalists use when they kill people queuing up at recruitment offices for the Iraq/Afghan Security Services.

 

[kas_tippler]

Should they be in Syria fighting with ISIS? No
Was it possible to arrest them and put them on trial?
No
What other course of action could be taken other than what happened?

 

[Damocles]

Iraq? Now infinitely worse than under Saddam, bombs going off in the streets, basic services, water and electricity screwed, the economy ruined, and huge areas occupied by Islamic fundamentalist fruit loops and basket cases.

There's a larger perspective here though. Yes, Iraq as a country is worse off than before we invaded (and I also was pro-war). But now their destiny is in the hands of the Iraqis rather than a dictator.

Whilst the short term problems are immense, they are now the problems that the Iraqis as a populace have to fight and work through rather than under the jackboot of a single person. They may well turn into a fascistic Islamic country bent on world domination - but that will be their choice. That when looking at the longer term is more preferable to a people oppressed by a dictator. Not much better, but still a little better.

From our point of view we've made the world more dangerous for us by invasion but we've allowed the Iraqis a form of self determination. That's all that was delivered and that's enough. The fact that their self determination might actually turn out to be extremely harmful to us does not remove the fact that it is a form of self determination

 

[Sir peace frog]

Should they be in Syria fighting with ISIS? No
Was it possible to arrest them and put them on trial?
No
What other course of action could be taken other than what happened?

wait until they returned to the uk then arrest them ?,that would be the option, however I think a good droning is what was needed

 

[The perfect fumble]

There's a larger perspective here though. Yes, Iraq as a country is worse off than before we invaded (and I also was pro-war). But now their destiny is in the hands of the Iraqis rather than a dictator.

Whilst the short term problems are immense, they are now the problems that the Iraqis as a populace have to fight and work through rather than under the jackboot of a single person. They may well turn into a fascistic Islamic country bent on world domination - but that will be their choice. That when looking at the longer term is more preferable to a people oppressed by a dictator. Not much better, but still a little better.

From our point of view we've made the world more dangerous for us by invasion but we've allowed the Iraqis a form of self determination. That's all that was delivered and that's enough. The fact that their self determination might actually turn out to be extremely harmful to us does not remove the fact that it is a form of self determination

You and I don't agree on much, but I'm all for self determination until I'm not.

We see the folks voting in a government in Baghdad as legitimate, fair enough, it resembles us, but the Kurds don't, they want their own country and ISIS don't they want a country ruled by Sharia, they swear their allegiance to a god .

ISIS stands for Islamic State of Iraq and Syria. You could view them as George Washington and his patriots fighting the red coats or the Vietcong fighting the Yanks but it doesn't get you very far. Our problem, and I mean our problem, is that until recently we saw liberation struggles as people striving for self determination, and we defined self determination as being like us. Then we changed our tack and saw liberation struggles as people striving for self determination, unless the people striving were Communists, then that was not self determination but oppression, now we see liberation struggles and we don't know what to think.

The old political maxims don't seem to fit in the 21st Century.

 

[SWP's back]

nobody in Syria can possibly be an imminent threat to the UK

if somebody in Syria is directing attacks on the UK then they must be communicating with the UK so why didn't we just intercept these communications and use the info to stop our homegrown terrorists?

haven't we royally fucked up here?

Nope.

 

[SWP's back]

Anyone care to answer this question?....

"Why kill people for plotting to launch terrorist attacks after the gatherings they were supposed to have been planning to attack had passed off without incident?"

Because you don't know for a start which gathering they were targeting.

 

[SWP's back]

dunno, that's a best guess. You tell me why he did do it because you sure haven't come up with a convincing explanation yet

I think he has.