British Justice ... it sucks in this instance.

[ChicagoBlue]

It's the Land Of The Freak, and the Home Of The Braindead.
'I need a big fucking gun, to protect me from other folk with a big fucking gun'.
'But, lot's of folk are getting shot by folks with guns - how can we possibly address this situation?
Maybe stop folks owning guns?'
'No, stupid - we need even more guns...'
And Amerikkkans wonder why others laugh at them.
Joseph Heller is alive and well, and sends his regards.

I see your level of "debate" has devolved into amusing yourself and your friends with childish drivel. Enjoy!

 

[stony]

I suspect that the penny has dropped and somebody has realised that no matter how many times he explains himself, no matter how many capital letters he uses, every other person on the forum knows that he's wrong.

Now as for Oakie........

That bullshit doesn't work on me, mate. If you and your mates want to try to act like this is your Forum and what you say goes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go for it! I have the right to defend myself and my family against someone who illegally enters my house,with the law and thousands of years of precedent on my side.

Due to work, I live in a society where many criminals arm themselves and there are more guns than people, with a concentration of those firearms with a minority of the population (about 20% of the population own about 65% of the guns, and the USA has more guns than any society in the world. You live in a less violent society where guns are illegal. Big difference.

I'm no fan of Americas gun culture and I think the NRA are the biggest dicks in the world. I also think the death penalty has no place in a civilised society. But I would have no problem shooting a burglar and if I could own a gun and it was legal to shoot them over here, then I would not hesitate in exercising that right.
Fuck em. Come in my house and threaten my family, you better be prepared to pay the price.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I suspect that the penny has dropped and somebody has realised that no matter how many times he explains himself, no matter how many capital letters he uses, every other person on the forum knows that he's wrong.

Now as for Oakie........

That bullshit doesn't work on me, mate. If you and your mates want to try to act like this is your Forum and what you say goes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go for it! I have the right to defend myself and my family against someone who illegally enters my house,with the law and thousands of years of precedent on my side.

Due to work, I live in a society where many criminals arm themselves and there are more guns than people, with a concentration of those firearms with a minority of the population (about 20% of the population own about 65% of the guns, and the USA has more guns than any society in the world. You live in a less violent society where guns are illegal. Big difference.

I'm no fan of Americas gun culture (me, either!)and I think the NRA are the biggest dicks in the world (me, too!). I also think the death penalty has no place in a civilised society (I'm not sure. Conflicted.).

But I would have no problem shooting a burglar and if I could own a gun and it was legal to shoot them over here, then I would not hesitate in exercising that right. Fuck em. Come in my house and threaten my family, you better be prepared to pay the price.(That's all I'm sayin'!)

 

[Skashion]

Fuck em. Come in my house and threaten my family, you better be prepared to pay the price.

The problem with that logic is that a gun is more likely to take the life of a family member either by being a) mistaken for an intruder b) accidental discharge c) kids getting hold of them which is a monthly occurrence in the United States and if you don't believe me on that go and check d) and especially by making suicides far easier. Guns do not protect your family. They endanger them.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

It's the Land Of The Freak, and the Home Of The Braindead.
'I need a big fucking gun, to protect me from other folk with a big fucking gun'.
'But, lot's of folk are getting shot by folks with guns - how can we possibly address this situation?
Maybe stop folks owning guns?'
'No, stupid - we need even more guns...'
And Amerikkkans wonder why others laugh at them.
Joseph Heller is alive and well, and sends his regards.

I see your level of "debate" has devolved into amusing yourself and your friends with childish drivel. Enjoy!

You haven't made a single valid point, other than reiterating the same tired mantra that you have the right to bear arms and shoot intruders in your country without repercussions, and seem to see this as a wonderful empowering thing, whereas I see it as creating a gun control problem that is ever-spiralling out of control.
I live in England, where the chance of an intruder breaking into my house with a firearm is remote, so although I may experience burglary at some point, I am unlikely to be shot.
You, on the other hand, live in a society which has ratcheted up the domestic, (and global, for that matter, but let's not open that particular can of worms), arms race to a point where any intruder is likely to be armed, and therefore present more of a threat.
Now we all know you see yourself as some kind of crackshot because you have been trained to kill, apparently, but if an intruder gets to you whilst you are sleeping/wanking/watching the ball game, or whatever it is you shermans do to pass the time, then you don't get the chance to lock and load your personal arsenal, and are as a result at a considerable disadvantage.
Just how you have difficulties taking this basic fact on board is beyond me, and I should imagine the rest of the forum.
All you seem to do is live in a constant state of fear that some gun totin' psycho crackhead will burst in at the dead of night, sodomise your cat, and steal your bagels.
We don't live in such a state of paranoia and fear in this country - it's far from a crime-free bed of roses, but folk in the main feel fairly safe, both on the streets, and in their own homes.
And, in my opinion, one of the main reasons for that is the fact that most folks are not armed to the teeth.
Even intruders.
I don't doubt that you will simply return to regurgitating your 'guns are good' rhetoric, because that is what your society teaches/brainwashes you to believe, but some of us fortunately think otherwise, and are not dysfunctional, neurotic permanently scared individuals as a result.
There - that wasn't so difficult, was it?
Now I really am done with you, because if you don't grasp the salient fact that British folk are generally happier, more relaxed and saner than their US counterparts because we tend to see the bulge in a bloke's pocket as an erection rather than a firearm, then there is no point in taking this any further.

 

[cibaman]

Would help if we knew what level of assault this lad had been convicted of.

In reality very few ABHs involving defendants with good character end up at Crown Court, the CPS charge at a common assault level so that a costly trial at Crown can be avoided, they can usually justify this if the defendant is likely to receive no more than 6 months custody.

To receive 14 months suggests that the injuries were more serious

If the injuries were as described to the OP the sentence was clearly excessive, whether or not a bottle was used. It would seem that the defendant would have very strong grounds for appeal.

 

[Cellarite]

I suspect that the penny has dropped and somebody has realised that no matter how many times he explains himself, no matter how many capital letters he uses, every other person on the forum knows that he's wrong.

Now as for Oakie........

That bullshit doesn't work on me, mate. If you and your mates want to try to act like this is your Forum and what you say goes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go for it! I have the right to defend myself and my family against someone who illegally enters my house,with the law and thousands of years of precedent on my side.

Due to work, I live in a society where many criminals arm themselves and there are more guns than people, with a concentration of those firearms with a minority of the population (about 20% of the population own about 65% of the guns, and the USA has more guns than any society in the world. You live in a less violent society where guns are illegal. Big difference.

The problem with you on this thread is that your debate has quite simply come from nowhere.

We were all happy discussing the rights and wrongs of Oakie's neighbour when, from out of nowhere, you came threatening us that if we intrude your home you'll shoot us.

Read it back and tell me I'm wrong.

I'm sure there are level headed, ordinary people who class themselves as American who would fit seamlessly into the UK should they move here. Then there's the people like you. In a constant state of paranoia "but that don't matter 'cos I'll pop a cap in yo' ass."

Your thousand year old laws have the precise total of fuck all to do with this thread and people are more impressed that I won the parents' egg & spoon race at sportsday last year than they are that you've been trained by some other lunatic how to handle a firearm.

 

[tidyman]

I suspect that the penny has dropped and somebody has realised that no matter how many times he explains himself, no matter how many capital letters he uses, every other person on the forum knows that he's wrong.

Now as for Oakie........

That bullshit doesn't work on me, mate. If you and your mates want to try to act like this is your Forum and what you say goes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go for it! I have the right to defend myself and my family against someone who illegally enters my house,with the law and thousands of years of precedent on my side.

Due to work, I live in a society where many criminals arm themselves and there are more guns than people, with a concentration of those firearms with a minority of the population (about 20% of the population own about 65% of the guns, and the USA has more guns than any society in the world. You live in a less violent society where guns are illegal. Big difference.

The problem with you on this thread is that your debate has quite simply come from nowhere.

We were all happy discussing the rights and wrongs of Oakie's neighbour when, from out of nowhere, you came threatening us that if we intrude your home you'll shoot us.

Read it back and tell me I'm wrong.

I'm sure there are level headed, ordinary people who class themselves as American who would fit seamlessly into the UK should they move here. Then there's the people like you. In a constant state of paranoia "but that don't matter 'cos I'll pop a cap in yo' ass."

Your thousand year old laws have the precise total of fuck all to do with this thread and people are more impressed that I won the parents' egg & spoon race at sportsday last year than they are that you've been trained by some other lunatic how to handle a firearm.

You won last years egg and spoon race?

What school?

I'm impressed anyway.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I suspect that the penny has dropped and somebody has realised that no matter how many times he explains himself, no matter how many capital letters he uses, every other person on the forum knows that he's wrong.

Now as for Oakie........

That bullshit doesn't work on me, mate. If you and your mates want to try to act like this is your Forum and what you say goes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go for it! I have the right to defend myself and my family against someone who illegally enters my house,with the law and thousands of years of precedent on my side.

Due to work, I live in a society where many criminals arm themselves and there are more guns than people, with a concentration of those firearms with a minority of the population (about 20% of the population own about 65% of the guns, and the USA has more guns than any society in the world. You live in a less violent society where guns are illegal. Big difference.

Your thousands of years of precedent argument, undermines, not reinforces your point. Until relatively recently, the rule of law did not exist in any coherent, meaningful way. This too applied to the laws of natural justice. Most certainly all weren't seen as equal before the law. I realise that this is a theoretical concept, rather than the practical reality, but it at least exists as an aspiration, which wasn't the case three or so hundred years ago. Your argument, therefore, is based, in the main, about a time when laws did not act as a civilising force in any meaningful way. It derives from a time when people had to, and to an extent were entitled to, take the law into their own hands. That state of affairs no longer subsists in your country, or ours.

You are making the mistake conflating the common law principle of the right to defend your home with the right to bear arms, which hopelessly simplifies the argument. No reasonable person would argue against the former, but they could very well state that it shouldn't have to engage the latter. If you take your argument to its next logical conclusion, to defend your property at whatever cost you deem appropriate, then presumably you consider man-traps deployed around your property to be acceptable. You could also try a few explosives too for good measure. Perhaps everyone doesn't want to live in a society like that and balances out the small likelihood of being outgunned in our own homes against the vision of hell that widespread gun ownership represents and the inevitable arms race that arises out of it.

You talk about bearing arms as an inaliable right, almost as an immutable law of the universe, rather than a necessary evil, never mind an unnecessary one . Until that mindset shifts your nation is bound to keep repeating the same mistakes at great cost, in the main, to the innocent.

The great irony is the existence of the US Constitution and the legal system that underpins it should greatly reduce the need for individuals to bear arms. It is a lamentable fact that an amendment to that Constitution, designed as it was as a temporary measure, is now seen as something that can never be subject to change, no matter what. The circumstances that lead to its inclusion have gone away, but human greed and gullibility remain, regrettably.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Interesting points regarding the Yanks and their love of guns. I read somewhere that the Swiss have more guns per head than most countries, as their 'army' is drawn from militia, and assault rifles are in abundance in the chalets of the local yodellers.
Now, as far as I'm aware, the cuckoo clock assemblers don't go around blowing away the sixth form of their local educational establishment on a regular basis, so why is it that their gun possession doesn't cause their society any problem?

 

[oakiecokie]

An appeal could actually take longer to come to Court again,than the actual and possible release from prison early with tag being worn.Therefore Anthony has decided against any appeal and just wants in and out as quickly as possible.

 

[stonerblue]

Yep, hilarious.....if you find me protecting myself and my family funny. Two in the heart, one in the head, in under 2 seconds, from about 10 yards....lather, rinse, repeat until threat neutralized. Emphasizing the word "kill" tends to make an assailant's ears prick up, as opposed to saying "will shoot you." And, it is a far more accurate descriptor.

Easy way around this is don't come into my house uninvited to steal my shit or threaten my family and everyone is happy. You might find this "boneheaded," but the law calls it "self defense" and protecting my family's life and property. And, by law, I don't even need to give an assailant a warning, only the Police do! The threshold of a man's house is a line that should not be crossed without invitation.

Plus, it adds a little sport to B&E, doesn't it?

Bwahahahahahahahahah THAT!!!

No need really.
You are a trigger happy simpleton who has watched too many Dirty Harry films.
'I can kill folk and get away with it - how big a hard on does that give me?'
Until the day comes when the intruder has a bigger, better gun, and an even better aim.
Fortunately for the rest of us you are in the right country.

Ah yes, one of the self righteous BlueMoon anointed telling me who I am! Always a fun event!

I'm neither "trigger happy" nor a "simpleton," and I think I might have watched one, maybe two of those Eastwood movies...but then that is irrelevant, isn't it, because you know better.

I certainly do not get a hard on thinking about killing someone in my own home, nor would it give me any pleasure AT ALL. However, I'm not willing to be the hapless victim of a scrote who thinks he can do whatever the fuck he wants to me and my family, either. Guns are prevalent in America, and I'm not going to be able to stop that. If no-one ELSE had one, neither would I. Alas, this Utopia you seek does not exist....even in Jolly Old, so get over your delicate self and realize the REALITY of living in one of the most violent cities in America you knob!

I'd venture the top 3 or 4 stories on LAST NIGHTS CHICAGO newscast were about guns, violence, and death. There is a big bad world out there and there are scrotes and their victims, and there are scrotes who BECOME victims. I know which I prefer and will use my legal rights to ensure I do not become a scrote's victim. Nothing "hard" or "hard on" about it, mate, just being real.

When the day comes, when the intruder has a bigger gun, then I guess we will have to rely on training. However, would YOU prefer that the scrote have a gun and me not? Am I ALLOWED to stop my 17 yr old daughter from being raped in front of me with a gun to her head? Am I ALLOWED to protect my wife from being sodomized for the enjoyment of a vicious scrote who wants to make the point that HE is in charge? What about my 16 year old son, who is built like a little bodybuilder? If the scrote thinks he might be a threat to him, should I sit idly by while he gets murdered?

Again, and S L O W L Y for those who are struggling with the concept of NOT being a victim in your own home, I don't walk around like Dirty Harry, nor do even my closest neighbors even know I am trained to use firearms. I am also trained to know the difference between a threat and a drunk showing up at the wrong house. I do not take my personal responsibility lightly, nor do I push guns or gun culture on ANYONE. In fact, I abhor personal violence. I will never set out to commit it unless I feel my life or that of my family is in danger. Once we reach that threshold, then I CHOOSE not to be the victim.....because in America, most victims end up dead.

Do I like that aspect of society? Not a bit. But, I don't get to MAKE the rules, only live with them. If I could get rid of every gun on the street, I would snap my fingers and do it. There is no great mystery to learning how to shoot a gun, or be very accurate, and it does not make you a man to be able to pull a trigger. However "Dirty Harry" you THINK it is, that is just YOUR prejudice about me from YOUR movie watching, not mine. You don't know me, where I live, or appear to know my rights as a private citizen, but then this is the internet and I'm talking about the stark reality of REAL LIFE, where people DO get raped in their own beds while family members are forced to watch, where kids ARE shot in front of their parents, and where entire families die at the hands of anonymous scrotes looking for shit to sell to get high.

I will end this by saying I have never been in trouble with the law. I have had multiple, detailed FBI background checks and I have been trained to kill by Federal Law Enforcement. I know the difference between fact and fiction, Dirty Harry and the scrote threatening my family. I do not project fear in others, nor do I project fear in myself. I simply go about my daily life causing no-one harm and helping as many people on their way as possible. In many ways, I would be considered a model citizen.

However, thankfully, I, and the society in which I live, draw the line at HAVING TO CHOOSE TO BE A VICTIM OF THE VIOLENCE OF OTHERS. I do not bring violence to the doorstep of others and I do not expect it to be brought to mine. If it is, then all bets are off AND the law is on my side, as long as I fear for my own life or that of a family member. Personally, I think the warning I described earlier provides adequate warning of what is about to happen. If you are the scrote who broke in, then you had better find a way out in a hurry, because one step in my direction and you WILL be put down. Sorry if that offends your delicate sensibilities, but THAT is the law.

BTW, you would be surprise how little B&E we have here! Or maybe you wouldn't?!

[bigimg]http://www.saint.org/images/blogger/death-wish-4-charles-bronson-724713.jpg[/bigimg]

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

An appeal could actually take longer to come to Court again,than the actual and possible release from prison early with tag being worn.Therefore Anthony has decided against any appeal and just wants in and out as quickly as possible.

I'm sorry oakie, but if I had genuinely been wrongly convicted, then I would fight tooth and nail to have that conviction quashed, regardless of how long it took, and how much it cost.
And if I had a reasonable cause for appeal, then any half-decent brief would accept my case.
I know he's your mate, and your loyalty is admirable, but I can't help but think that there may well be more to this than meets the eye, and that he may have given you a version of events that doesn't entirely match what transpired.
On another note, I apologise for my part in hijacking the thread by responding to some deranged sherman who seems hell bent on telling us just how safe guns make society.

 

[Challenger1978]

That bullshit doesn't work on me, mate. If you and your mates want to try to act like this is your Forum and what you say goes, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, go for it! I have the right to defend myself and my family against someone who illegally enters my house,with the law and thousands of years of precedent on my side.

Due to work, I live in a society where many criminals arm themselves and there are more guns than people, with a concentration of those firearms with a minority of the population (about 20% of the population own about 65% of the guns, and the USA has more guns than any society in the world. You live in a less violent society where guns are illegal. Big difference.

I'm no fan of Americas gun culture (me, either!)and I think the NRA are the biggest dicks in the world (me, too!). I also think the death penalty has no place in a civilised society (I'm not sure. Conflicted.).

But I would have no problem shooting a burglar and if I could own a gun and it was legal to shoot them over here, then I would not hesitate in exercising that right. Fuck em. Come in my house and threaten my family, you better be prepared to pay the price.(That's all I'm sayin'!)

Don't let the Guardian reading dickheads get you down fella.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

An appeal could actually take longer to come to Court again,than the actual and possible release from prison early with tag being worn.Therefore Anthony has decided against any appeal and just wants in and out as quickly as possible.

Or, of course, he may have been advised an appeal could well lead to an increased sentence...

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

According to Dirty Harry's logic then, burglaries should be far less common in the good ol' US of A as the perpetrator is risking his life by breaking in to a property where the occupier might well be armed.

And on the surface, that's borne out by the stats. Reported burglaries in the USA are about 700 per 100,000 people. In the UK, it's about 500/100,000. So it's lower here anyway but burglary is defined quite differently in the 2 countries and is much wider in the UK, where even an unsuccessful attempt to enter a property with intent to steal is classed as a burglary. About 40% of these actually involve entry to a property resulting in a theft, which is the US definition. That means that the equivalent figures in the UK are around 200/100,000. Doesn't seem like facing an armed householder is much of a deterrent then.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.copinthehood.com/2011/09/burglary-in-uk.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.copinthehood.com/2011/09/burglary-in-uk.html</a>

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

I'm no fan of Americas gun culture (me, either!)and I think the NRA are the biggest dicks in the world (me, too!). I also think the death penalty has no place in a civilised society (I'm not sure. Conflicted.).

But I would have no problem shooting a burglar and if I could own a gun and it was legal to shoot them over here, then I would not hesitate in exercising that right. Fuck em. Come in my house and threaten my family, you better be prepared to pay the price.(That's all I'm sayin'!)

Don't let the Guardian reading dickheads get you down fella.

I'm sure your support means a lot to him, even if the rest of the forum think he's bonkers.
The average Guardian reader could buy and sell you in the brains department, which I accept wouldn't be difficult.
In fact only a really stupid person would conclude that reading possibly the only decent daily newspaper we have renders you a 'dickhead'.
So well done you.

 

[Challenger1978]

Don't let the Guardian reading dickheads get you down fella.

I'm sure your support means a lot to him, even if the rest of the forum think he's bonkers.
The average Guardian reader could buy and sell you in the brains department, which I accept wouldn't be difficult.
In fact only a really stupid person would conclude that reading possibly the only decent daily newspaper we have renders you a 'dickhead'.
So well done you.

You're delude absolutely deluded,

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Don't let the Guardian reading dickheads get you down fella.

I'm sure your support means a lot to him, even if the rest of the forum think he's bonkers.
The average Guardian reader could buy and sell you in the brains department, which I accept wouldn't be difficult.
In fact only a really stupid person would conclude that reading possibly the only decent daily newspaper we have renders you a 'dickhead'.
So well done you.

You're delude absolutely deluded,

I couldn't agree more. I can't believe he excluded The Times.

 

[Pelly Greeny]