Budget 2024

[metalblue]

The OBR did the work. I am merely the messenger.

And it amuses the fuck out of me to point out you voted to screw the economy while you babble on about the state of the economy. It’s my happy place.

Well the OBR forecasted a long term 15% reduction in trade intensity within the G7 rather than 15% drag on growth. The here and now is the OBRs assessment of the budget - ie an increase in £350bn going in to the system to get less growth than before.

I’d vote for Brexit again tomorrow - my reasoning is well documented. You might say that the government investing in public services is right and accept that will cost us returns on growth and be happy to vote for Labour again on the basis of increased public spending for decreased growth. Funny really that our arguments for harm on growth in return for a protected/better public service are likely so closely aligned yet it amuses you as it’s only morally right when it’s something you agree with - which isn’t really a surprise as we all agree with ourselves!!

 

[hampshireblue]

Well the OBR forecasted a long term 15% reduction in trade intensity within the G7 rather than 15% drag on growth. The here and now is the OBRs assessment of the budget - ie an increase in £350bn going in to the system to get less growth than before.

I’d vote for Brexit again tomorrow - my reasoning is well documented. You might say that the government investing in public services is right and accept that will cost us returns on growth and be happy to vote for Labour again on the basis of increased public spending for decreased growth. Funny really that our arguments for harm on growth in return for a protected/better public service are likely so closely aligned yet it amuses you as it’s only morally right when it’s something you agree with - which isn’t really a surprise as we all agree with ourselves!!

You clearly know something most of us don't about where the benefits are.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

You clearly know something most of us don't about where the benefits are.

The destruction of the Conservative Party is the main one.

 

[metalblue]

You clearly know something most of us don't about where the benefits are.

TTIP was my reasoning. I have a pathological dislike of our health service being vulnerable to things like big yank tobacco firms suing them for loss of profits for them acting in the interests of public health.

Just doesn’t sit right with me. Any trading bloc that tries to get that sort of agreement in place isn’t a bloc I want to be part of. Some things are just too important. Depressingly our government was also in favour of the deal but I can’t really stop being part of the UK. Took Trump of all people to kick it in to touch.

 

[inbetween]

TTIP was my reasoning. I have a pathological dislike of our health service being vulnerable to things like big yank tobacco firms suing them for loss of profits for them acting in the interests of public health.

Just doesn’t sit right with me. Any trading bloc that tries to get that sort of agreement in place isn’t a bloc I want to be part of. Some things are just too important. Depressingly our government was also in favour of the deal but I can’t really stop being part of the UK. Took Trump of all people to kick it in to touch.

This is sort of self-defeative though because weren't the Tories and certainly Reform generally in favour of appeasing the Americans and not the opposite? They consistently claimed that a major Brexit benefit was that a US trade deal could be done within years (a lie). If we were so anti-American and worried then why was a US trade deal made into such a big deal post-Brexit?

Whilst in the EU we had collective bargaining power but we gave that up to instead rely upon some sweetheart deal that benefited us which was never going to happen. There is no chance of new progress on this with either of the potential next President as UK trade is so low on their priority list.

Either way we'd have to take chlorinated chicken, American healthcare/pharma and everything else they might demand or else what is the point for them? As usual we thought we stood tall alone but it hasn't turned out that way.

 

[BobKowalski]

I don’t agree with a lot of what Dyson says, and I certainly didn’t agree with him on Brexit, but he is right to call the Budget an ignorant swipe at aspiration. And parts of it are certainly vindictive in nature.

Utter bollocks. Dyson bought over 30k of farmland as a tax dodge. There was some resentment from smaller farmers that people like Dyson were artificially inflating land prices.

Attacking the budget on behalf of wealthy landowners and those sending their kids to private schools makes the conservatives and their right wing cheerleaders sound stupid. I get that sounding stupid is their default mode, but Labour will not lose sleep over these lines of attack.

 

[inbetween]

Utter bollocks. Dyson bought over 30k of farmland as a tax dodge. There was some resentment from smaller farmers that people like Dyson were artificially inflating land prices.

Attacking the budget on behalf of wealthy landowners and those sending their kids to private schools makes the conservatives and their right wing cheerleaders sound stupid. I get that sounding stupid is their default mode, but Labour will not lose sleep over these lines of attack.

You still have to ask though if I inherit a £2m farm but want to work it then how do I pay the £400k IHT bill?

The reality is most farmers would sell up or certainly their families would upon inheritance and then who would buy the farm? More than likely it would be a major corporation or billionaire and so even more wealth and land passes to the 1%.

If I was a farmer today then I'd probably ring up Barratt Homes and get the inevitable over with.

 

[metalblue]

This is sort of self-defeative though because weren't the Tories and certainly Reform generally in favour of appeasing the Americans and not the opposite? They consistently claimed that a major Brexit benefit was that a US trade deal could be done within years (a lie). If we were so anti-American and worried then why was a US trade deal made into such a big deal post-Brexit?

Whilst in the EU we had collective bargaining power but we gave that up to instead rely upon some sweetheart deal that benefited us which was never going to happen. There is no chance of new progress on this with either of the potential next President as UK trade is so low on their priority list.

Either way we'd have to take chlorinated chicken, American healthcare/pharma and everything else they might demand or else what is the point for them? As usual we thought we stood tall alone but it hasn't turned out that way.

One problem at a time….

 

[BobKowalski]

Well the OBR forecasted a long term 15% reduction in trade intensity within the G7 rather than 15% drag on growth. The here and now is the OBRs assessment of the budget - ie an increase in £350bn going in to the system to get less growth than before.

I’d vote for Brexit again tomorrow - my reasoning is well documented. You might say that the government investing in public services is right and accept that will cost us returns on growth and be happy to vote for Labour again on the basis of increased public spending for decreased growth. Funny really that our arguments for harm on growth in return for a protected/better public service are likely so closely aligned yet it amuses you as it’s only morally right when it’s something you agree with - which isn’t really a surprise as we all agree with ourselves!!

One man’s ‘reduction’ is another’s ‘drag on growth’

As for the budget, it’s a simple calculation. The country needs investment in its public services and infrastructure. Failure to invest is also a drag on growth. That investment has to be in the form of increased taxes and borrowing. The focus of the taxes has been business and employer orientated and closing tax loopholes for wealthy landowners. Labour has to start somewhere and this budget is a reasonable first step.

The OBR forecast on reduced growth in the short term is also a simple calculation. Benefits from public investment is not immediate whereas tax raises feed into the system immediately. But we are in this situation because of our decade long failure to invest and voting for economic self harm. There is a price to be paid for short-sighted stupidity and I’m happy for the likes of Dyson to start paying it.

 

[metalblue]

Utter bollocks. Dyson bought over 30k of farmland as a tax dodge. There was some resentment from smaller farmers that people like Dyson were artificially inflating land prices.

Attacking the budget on behalf of wealthy landowners and those sending their kids to private schools makes the conservatives and their right wing cheerleaders sound stupid. I get that sounding stupid is their default mode, but Labour will not lose sleep over these lines of attack.

Not sure it’s obviously a tax dodge. He’s invested a chunk of money in sustainable farming. Now he claims he has more than a passing interest in farming but only he knows. You certainly don’t.