Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester [Merged]

[wayne71]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Plus how do you even determine if they were a burglar or not in any event? By having a fucking trial presumably, or maybe he's suggesting we just take the homeowners word for it.

The possibilities for mass murderers are endless.

Woah, I didn't say the case shouldn't be investigated but if the evidence is overwhelming that the person broke in to your house and was injured or died as a result why should the homeowner be dragged through court.

Who decides if the evidence is overwhelming?

Not working in the legal business or being a criminal I'm no expert but I thought the police investigated crimes and the CPS decided if it went to court?

I'm certainly not part of the 'lynch mob' but I fail to see why some innocent hard working law abiding person should be dragged through the courts because some heroin addled scumbag decides to break in to their property.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Plus how do you even determine if they were a burglar or not in any event? By having a fucking trial presumably, or maybe he's suggesting we just take the homeowners word for it.

The possibilities for mass murderers are endless.

Woah, I didn't say the case shouldn't be investigated but if the evidence is overwhelming that the person broke in to your house and was injured or died as a result why should the homeowner be dragged through court.

Exactly. Even the thieving little cunts dad has come out and said he wishes he had the guts to confront a burglar, more or less saying he doesn't blame the homeowner who killed his son. I just don't understand how people don't see that if you break into someones home then you are at risk of being nicked, hurt by the home owner or in some cases, killed. I'm sure the person in question didn't pick up the knife to kill, he picked it up to injure, fight back and defend his own. He had every right to do that and the burglar had no rights, because as soon as he illegally entered that property he left all of his rights on the doorstep. Maybe if the law was more hard on burglaries perhaps people would have more faith and take any step necessary to not have to confront the burglars, safe in the knowledge that if the Police do catch them, they won't see freedom for a good 5 years or so. I was on Comm Service with a guy who had been convicted of attempted burglary. Why the fuck he wasn't in jail i'll never know, but until that is sorted out people will take things into their own hands, and rightly so too. I said in another thread about how my sister in law was faced with 4 burglars breaking onto her then home, with threats of rape being shouted at her unless the keys to her car were handed over. She phoned the police, only to be told that no one would be able to attend because the only available officer was at that point on his own. Seriously! So basically she was left to fend for herself, alone, because the police couldn't provide an officer because he too was alone. That, to me, is fucking atrocious and it's things like that which then make people take it into their own hands. I said to her that she should have phoned back and said she had a gun and was going to use it and watched how quick they turned up then. People are forced to take things into their own hands. If that results in the death of the criminal in question, good! The bottom line is if they weren't trying to steal things that weren't theirs in the first place, they wouldn't be at risk of anything anyway.
I hope this happens more and more to people who want to illegally enter a property to take things that aren;t theirs.

Ok - I have asked this once,but will do it again in big letters in the hope of an answer;

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU ASCERTAIN THAT EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING UNTIL SUCH TIME AS IT IS PRESENTED BEFORE A COURT OF LAW?

Your sister-in-law received a shite service from the police,and this is wrong,although not the greatest of shocks.
That doesn't mean we should all make like Clint Eastwood at the drop of a hat,but should be complaining to the useless plods concerned to get their house in order and do the job we (over)pay them for.

 

[Pigeonho]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Woah, I didn't say the case shouldn't be investigated but if the evidence is overwhelming that the person broke in to your house and was injured or died as a result why should the homeowner be dragged through court.

Exactly. Even the thieving little cunts dad has come out and said he wishes he had the guts to confront a burglar, more or less saying he doesn't blame the homeowner who killed his son. I just don't understand how people don't see that if you break into someones home then you are at risk of being nicked, hurt by the home owner or in some cases, killed. I'm sure the person in question didn't pick up the knife to kill, he picked it up to injure, fight back and defend his own. He had every right to do that and the burglar had no rights, because as soon as he illegally entered that property he left all of his rights on the doorstep. Maybe if the law was more hard on burglaries perhaps people would have more faith and take any step necessary to not have to confront the burglars, safe in the knowledge that if the Police do catch them, they won't see freedom for a good 5 years or so. I was on Comm Service with a guy who had been convicted of attempted burglary. Why the fuck he wasn't in jail i'll never know, but until that is sorted out people will take things into their own hands, and rightly so too. I said in another thread about how my sister in law was faced with 4 burglars breaking onto her then home, with threats of rape being shouted at her unless the keys to her car were handed over. She phoned the police, only to be told that no one would be able to attend because the only available officer was at that point on his own. Seriously! So basically she was left to fend for herself, alone, because the police couldn't provide an officer because he too was alone. That, to me, is fucking atrocious and it's things like that which then make people take it into their own hands. I said to her that she should have phoned back and said she had a gun and was going to use it and watched how quick they turned up then. People are forced to take things into their own hands. If that results in the death of the criminal in question, good! The bottom line is if they weren't trying to steal things that weren't theirs in the first place, they wouldn't be at risk of anything anyway.
I hope this happens more and more to people who want to illegally enter a property to take things that aren;t theirs.

Ok - I have asked this once,but will do it again in big letters in the hope of an answer;

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU ASCERTAIN THAT EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING UNTIL SUCH TIME AS IT IS PRESENTED BEFORE A COURT OF LAW?

Your sister-in-law received a shite service from the police,and this is wrong,although not the greatest of shocks.
That doesn't mean we should all make like Clint Eastwood at the drop of a hat,but should be complaining to the useless plods concerned to get their house in order and do the job we (over)pay them for.

Well what are you supposed to do? If someone is balaclavered up, tooled up and trying to break into your home at 3am, the only person who can ascertain what is happening is you, the homeowner/victim. Are you supposed to double check with the intruder first as to what his intentions are? No, are you eck, you are supposed to do the most natural thing in the world, and that is to protect your own and indeed, yourself. I may have misunderstood your point, but why should you leave things to the law in the hope it even gets to a court of law that is?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Woah, I didn't say the case shouldn't be investigated but if the evidence is overwhelming that the person broke in to your house and was injured or died as a result why should the homeowner be dragged through court.

Who decides if the evidence is overwhelming?

Not working in the legal business or being a criminal I'm no expert but I thought the police investigated crimes and the CPS decided if it went to court?

I'm certainly not part of the 'lynch mob' but I fail to see why some innocent hard working law abiding person should be dragged through the courts because some heroin addled scumbag decides to break in to their property.

Alright then, I refer you to my previous post. Is it ok to torture them for a couple of weeks before killing them?

 

[Pigeonho]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Who decides if the evidence is overwhelming?

Not working in the legal business or being a criminal I'm no expert but I thought the police investigated crimes and the CPS decided if it went to court?

I'm certainly not part of the 'lynch mob' but I fail to see why some innocent hard working law abiding person should be dragged through the courts because some heroin addled scumbag decides to break in to their property.

Alright then, I refer you to my previous post. Is it ok to torture them for a couple of weeks before killing them?

Sorry to butt in.
Torturing them would be premeditated, and would rightly mean that person has then become the criminal. It isn't premeditated to whack someone with whatever is closest as you are confronted with that person carrying the premeditated act of breaking into your home.
If the person hadn't carried out his premeditated act, the home owner would be sound asleep and no-one would be in any harm.
The bottom line is this innocent man is now looking at having his life turned upside down because some thieving little twat didn't bother going down the hard work route to make a life for himself. Thankfully he has paid the price for that. The homeowner should be praised, however he is looking at spending a large amount of his life mixed with the type of person he was trying to protect his home and family from, and that is just 100% wrong.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Exactly. Even the thieving little cunts dad has come out and said he wishes he had the guts to confront a burglar, more or less saying he doesn't blame the homeowner who killed his son. I just don't understand how people don't see that if you break into someones home then you are at risk of being nicked, hurt by the home owner or in some cases, killed. I'm sure the person in question didn't pick up the knife to kill, he picked it up to injure, fight back and defend his own. He had every right to do that and the burglar had no rights, because as soon as he illegally entered that property he left all of his rights on the doorstep. Maybe if the law was more hard on burglaries perhaps people would have more faith and take any step necessary to not have to confront the burglars, safe in the knowledge that if the Police do catch them, they won't see freedom for a good 5 years or so. I was on Comm Service with a guy who had been convicted of attempted burglary. Why the fuck he wasn't in jail i'll never know, but until that is sorted out people will take things into their own hands, and rightly so too. I said in another thread about how my sister in law was faced with 4 burglars breaking onto her then home, with threats of rape being shouted at her unless the keys to her car were handed over. She phoned the police, only to be told that no one would be able to attend because the only available officer was at that point on his own. Seriously! So basically she was left to fend for herself, alone, because the police couldn't provide an officer because he too was alone. That, to me, is fucking atrocious and it's things like that which then make people take it into their own hands. I said to her that she should have phoned back and said she had a gun and was going to use it and watched how quick they turned up then. People are forced to take things into their own hands. If that results in the death of the criminal in question, good! The bottom line is if they weren't trying to steal things that weren't theirs in the first place, they wouldn't be at risk of anything anyway.
I hope this happens more and more to people who want to illegally enter a property to take things that aren;t theirs.

Ok - I have asked this once,but will do it again in big letters in the hope of an answer;

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU ASCERTAIN THAT EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING UNTIL SUCH TIME AS IT IS PRESENTED BEFORE A COURT OF LAW?

Your sister-in-law received a shite service from the police,and this is wrong,although not the greatest of shocks.
That doesn't mean we should all make like Clint Eastwood at the drop of a hat,but should be complaining to the useless plods concerned to get their house in order and do the job we (over)pay them for.

Well what are you supposed to do? If someone is balaclavered up, tooled up and trying to break into your home at 3am, the only person who can ascertain what is happening is you, the homeowner/victim. Are you supposed to double check with the intruder first as to what his intentions are? No, are you eck, you are supposed to do the most natural thing in the world, and that is to protect your own and indeed, yourself. I may have misunderstood your point, but why should you leave things to the law in the hope it even gets to a court of law that is?

We leave things to the law because they are a profession who know more about due legal process than laymen like us do.
We appoint a jury of 12 random folks like you and me to hear the evidence from both sides before reaching their decision.
Occasionally they will get things wrong - this could be due to faked evidence,police corruption or simply human error,but once you abandon the legal system and take vigilante mob law as the norm,then you are going down a very slippery slope in my opinion.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

The homeowner should be praised, however he is looking at spending a large amount of his life mixed with the type of person he was trying to protect his home and family from, and that is just 100% wrong.

You seem to be getting all angry because you've already decided that this homeowner is going to be found guilty of murder and spend the next 15 years in prison. I will go as far as to guarantee that that isn't going to happen.

 

[Pigeonho]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Ok - I have asked this once,but will do it again in big letters in the hope of an answer;

HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU ASCERTAIN THAT EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING UNTIL SUCH TIME AS IT IS PRESENTED BEFORE A COURT OF LAW?

Your sister-in-law received a shite service from the police,and this is wrong,although not the greatest of shocks.
That doesn't mean we should all make like Clint Eastwood at the drop of a hat,but should be complaining to the useless plods concerned to get their house in order and do the job we (over)pay them for.

Well what are you supposed to do? If someone is balaclavered up, tooled up and trying to break into your home at 3am, the only person who can ascertain what is happening is you, the homeowner/victim. Are you supposed to double check with the intruder first as to what his intentions are? No, are you eck, you are supposed to do the most natural thing in the world, and that is to protect your own and indeed, yourself. I may have misunderstood your point, but why should you leave things to the law in the hope it even gets to a court of law that is?

We leave things to the law because they are a profession who know more about due legal process than laymen like us do.
We appoint a jury of 12 random folks like you and me to hear the evidence from both sides before reaching their decision.
Occasionally they will get things wrong - this could be due to faked evidence,police corruption or simply human error,but once you abandon the legal system and take vigilante mob law as the norm,then you are going down a very slippery slope in my opinion.

So I did get your point. Right ok, so tonight at 2 in the morning you wake up and facing you is a man in a balaclava, tooled up with a machete. At the side if you, unawares to him is a knife. If you only had one of the following 2 options, which one would you take?
1. You are able to grab the knife and stick it firmly in his gut.
2. You let him take what he wants, then phone the police so that those 12 jurors get the chance to let the great British judiciary system run its course...

 

[wayne71]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Who decides if the evidence is overwhelming?

Not working in the legal business or being a criminal I'm no expert but I thought the police investigated crimes and the CPS decided if it went to court?

I'm certainly not part of the 'lynch mob' but I fail to see why some innocent hard working law abiding person should be dragged through the courts because some heroin addled scumbag decides to break in to their property.

Alright then, I refer you to my previous post. Is it ok to torture them for a couple of weeks before killing them?

No, that would make you as bad as or worse than them. I am talking about a heat of the moment decision you make to defend your family or property against a balaclava wearing bloke who you found wandering around your house with a crowbar.

 

[Pigeonho]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

The homeowner should be praised, however he is looking at spending a large amount of his life mixed with the type of person he was trying to protect his home and family from, and that is just 100% wrong.

You seem to be getting all angry because you've already decided that this homeowner is going to be found guilty of murder and spend the next 15 years in prison. I will go as far as to guarantee that that isn't going to happen.

I would be that angry if he had to spend 15 seconds in prison mate, he doesn't deserve any jail time as he has done nothing wrong.