Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester [Merged]

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Not working in the legal business or being a criminal I'm no expert but I thought the police investigated crimes and the CPS decided if it went to court?

I'm certainly not part of the 'lynch mob' but I fail to see why some innocent hard working law abiding person should be dragged through the courts because some heroin addled scumbag decides to break in to their property.

Alright then, I refer you to my previous post. Is it ok to torture them for a couple of weeks before killing them?

Sorry to butt in.
Torturing them would be premeditated, and would rightly mean that person has then become the criminal. It isn't premeditated to whack someone with whatever is closest as you are confronted with that person carrying the premeditated act of breaking into your home.
If the person hadn't carried out his premeditated act, the home owner would be sound asleep and no-one would be in any harm.
The bottom line is this innocent man is now looking at having his life turned upside down because some thieving little twat didn't bother going down the hard work route to make a life for himself. Thankfully he has paid the price for that. The homeowner should be praised, however he is looking at spending a large amount of his life mixed with the type of person he was trying to protect his home and family from, and that is just 100% wrong.

I'm trying to see if he acknowledges that in some circumstances the force used is unreasonable, because once we have established that those circumstances exist , I fail to see how he, or anyone else can argue against the current system.

The fact is, as I have stated before, a jury is comprised of people like you me and him. We may have differing ideas about what is reasonable but your vote on that jury is as powerful as mine and his. And if there's any doubt that the force was unreasonable then the homeowner gets acquitted in any event. I don't know about you but knowing that makes me feel confident that I can use whatever force is required if someone breaks into my home.

I accept that putting homeowners through this ordeal can be unpleasant but that is the price we all pay for living in a free and open society.<br /><br />-- Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 am --<br /><br />

Not working in the legal business or being a criminal I'm no expert but I thought the police investigated crimes and the CPS decided if it went to court?

I'm certainly not part of the 'lynch mob' but I fail to see why some innocent hard working law abiding person should be dragged through the courts because some heroin addled scumbag decides to break in to their property.

Alright then, I refer you to my previous post. Is it ok to torture them for a couple of weeks before killing them?

No, that would make you as bad as or worse than them. I am talking about a heat of the moment decision you make to defend your family or property against a balaclava wearing bloke who you found wandering around your house with a crowbar.

In those circumstances I cannot imagine a jury ever convicting you.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

The homeowner should be praised, however he is looking at spending a large amount of his life mixed with the type of person he was trying to protect his home and family from, and that is just 100% wrong.

You seem to be getting all angry because you've already decided that this homeowner is going to be found guilty of murder and spend the next 15 years in prison. I will go as far as to guarantee that that isn't going to happen.

I would be that angry if he had to spend 15 seconds in prison mate, he doesn't deserve any jail time as he has done nothing wrong.

And he won't get any if the incident is as you describe.

You and Wayne71 seem to be arguing at cross purposes with Njinsky and gordondaviesmoustache. They're not saying you shouldn't knife the guy in those circumstances, they're saying that it is only right that the full due process of the law takes place once you have made that decision. It is then up to a jury of your peers to judge you.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Well what are you supposed to do? If someone is balaclavered up, tooled up and trying to break into your home at 3am, the only person who can ascertain what is happening is you, the homeowner/victim. Are you supposed to double check with the intruder first as to what his intentions are? No, are you eck, you are supposed to do the most natural thing in the world, and that is to protect your own and indeed, yourself. I may have misunderstood your point, but why should you leave things to the law in the hope it even gets to a court of law that is?

We leave things to the law because they are a profession who know more about due legal process than laymen like us do.
We appoint a jury of 12 random folks like you and me to hear the evidence from both sides before reaching their decision.
Occasionally they will get things wrong - this could be due to faked evidence,police corruption or simply human error,but once you abandon the legal system and take vigilante mob law as the norm,then you are going down a very slippery slope in my opinion.

So I did get your point. Right ok, so tonight at 2 in the morning you wake up and facing you is a man in a balaclava, tooled up with a machete. At the side if you, unawares to him is a knife. If you only had one of the following 2 options, which one would you take?
1. You are able to grab the knife and stick it firmly in his gut.
2. You let him take what he wants, then phone the police so that those 12 jurors get the chance to let the great British judiciary system run its course...

No,you didn't get my point at all,and seemingly still don't.
My initial reply was to another poster who stated that we have no need for a trial for the homeowner,as it would cost taxpayers money,and that the evidence was overwhelming.
My argument is that the guilt or innocence of said homeowner should be decided openly by a jury in open court.
That is the option preferred by civilized democracies,and one I support.
If the man who killed the burglar is acquitted by the jury,then fine,as they will have decided that he used reasonable force.
If not,and he is convicted as a result of him using disproportionate force,then that is fine as well.
The jury will see and hear far more detailed evidence and testimony than you or I will have access to,and it is upon that evidence that they will reach their verdict.
Why this is such a difficult concept to grasp I can't fathom.

 

[Pigeonho]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

I see what you are saying but the fear that will be running through the guys head right now until his trial will be fucking god-awful. I unfortunately got into some trouble where the law said it was more than possible I could go to jail for up to 5 years, because that was quite rightly the law for the stupid crime I had commited, (fighting). It took from May - December for it to get to sentencing day and during those months I was living a living-hell because I thought I was going to lose everything. I didn't, as it turned out, but the fear was there. That was partly my fault, (the other party was the person who started it), and because I couldn't control my temper and walk away, I suppose I quite rightly put myself through that living hell and had only myself to blame. This guy doesn't have that 'luxury' though. He will now be fearing the worst, he's killed someone and therefore he will be fearing being locked up for a long, long time. That is human nature to fear the worst. He didn't put himself in that position though like I did, yet here he is now wondering if he will see his kids again in the way he could just a couple of weeks ago. It's a fucking horrible situation for him to be in, and all completely out of something he didn't create.
I do see what you are saying about the court thing now though. I hadn't fully read either of your other posts in all honesty.

 

[Lucky13]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

As far as i'm concerned breaking into someones house is an unreasonable act , i don't see why the householder should be reasonable in his response.

Because we don't live in Alabama.

Unfortunately.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

As far as i'm concerned breaking into someones house is an unreasonable act , i don't see why the householder should be reasonable in his response.

Because we don't live in Alabama.

Unfortunately.

I questioned your logic,until I saw your location and realised that you had the incest without the good weather.
If you want to see a poverty-striken racist hellhole,you don't need to emigrate to Alabama.
Just get the bus to Oldham.
I await a death threat from aphex before lunch...

 

[Lucky13]

Re: Burglar stabbed to death, Manchester

Because we don't live in Alabama.

Unfortunately.

I questioned your logic,until I saw your location and realised that you had the incest without the good weather.
If you want to see a poverty-striken racist hellhole,you don't need to emigrate to Alabama.
Just get the bus to Oldham.
I await a death threat from aphex before lunch...

Qualty post that.

 

[CTID1988]

Salford break-in where intruder was stabbed to death

I went to school with the lad who has been charged for it. He was a fucking scumbag then and it doesnt look like he has got any better. The house owner should of done the lot in


<a class="postlink" href="http://menmedia.co.uk/salfordadvertiser/news/s/1425054_one-charged-one-arrested-after-salford-break-in-where-intruder-was-stabbed-to-death" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://menmedia.co.uk/salfordadvertiser ... d-to-death</a>
One charged, one arrested after Salford break-in where intruder was stabbed to death


A man has been charged with aggravated burglary and another has been arrested following an break-in at a house where an intruder was fatally stabbed.

John Leonard Bennell, 27, died from a knife wound to the chest in the incident in Pendlebury, Salford. He is believed to have been part of a group of four balaclava-clad men who burst into the home on Ethel Avenue last Wednesday.

Householder Peter Flanagan, 59, was arrested on suspicion of Mr Bennell's murder. He has been bailed until 25 July.

Mr Flanagan's 27-year-old son,Neil, and his son's 21-year-old girlfriend were also arrested but later released without charge.

Greater Manchester Police have now confirmed that Christopher Troy, 23, of St Mary's Street, Hyde, has been charged with aggravated burglary and possession of a bladed article.

He is due to appear before Salford magistrates court today.

Another man, a 23-year-old from Stretford, is being quizzed on suspicion of aggravated burglary. He was arrested this morning and remains in custody.

Police were called to the house on Ethel Avenue shortly before midnight on June 22 following reports of a burglary.

They then received reports of a man with stab wounds being carried along a street, by a gang of men, nearby.

Four masked men had attempted to get into the house before Mr Bennell - who was on police bail over another burglary - was stabbed.

It is believed he was carried away from the scene by the other intruders, before being dumped in nearby Hospital Road.

He was found by police and taken to hospital but died shortly afterwards.

A post-mortem examination confirmed the cause of his death as being a stab wound to the chest.

 

[MCC]

Re: Salford break-in where intruder was stabbed to death

Send the scumbags down!! Fuckers!!

 

[g.dog marshall.]

Re: Salford break-in where intruder was stabbed to death

give us some info on what his past was like then.