If not, as we get countered a lot then we have to join the club and do it ourselves.
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Burnley (H) Post Match Thread
- Thread starter FantasyIreland
- Start date
If not, as we get countered a lot then we have to join the club and do it ourselves.
bobbyowenquiff
Well-Known Member
It's one thing pretending to be injured but I thought this really was despicable stuff from Burnley. By doing this they are increasing the chance of a referee missing a genuine head injury and that could put a player's life at risk. The authorities should throw the book at them. I don't believe Pep would allow our players to do it.If not, as we get countered a lot then we have to join the club and do it ourselves.
The overall level of cheating in the game, especially since VAR, has gone beyond a joke. Bruno Fernandez did a dive in the middle of the field for United today screaming at the top of his voice. The ref ignored him but he should have been booked.
Bill Walker
Well-Known Member
VAR makes everything worse.It's one thing pretending to be injured but I thought this really was despicable stuff from Burnley. By doing this they are increasing the chance of a referee missing a genuine head injury and that could put a player's life at risk. The authorities should throw the book at them. I don't believe Pep would allow our players to do it.
The overall level of cheating in the game, especially since VAR, has gone beyond a joke. Bruno Fernandez did a dive in the middle of the field for United today screaming at the top of his voice. The ref ignored him but he should have been booked.
Something I noticed after a re-watch of 1st half (which I find makes gives me a stress-free way to look at the game) about our much hated Rodri-Gundogan double pivot and why it will stay permanently
1) Rodri typically played deeper than Gundogan when needed and would actually play between the CBs many times, Gundogan almost never did this, this was the clear role for Rodri, and Gundogan had alot more freedom to playmake. I think these roles perfectly suited both of them and created a kind of 3-1 shape at the back to build play from.
2) It served the purpose of allowing our fullbacks to provide width, because Gundogan and Rodri would drop to the left or right side respectively. And while Mendy was more threatening than Walker, just the simple act of having Walker out wide meant we stretched the pitch giving our forwards more space. Now Walker still played inverted for many moments with Mendy wide so it wasn't strict in that sense, but usually when this happens I found it funny to see KdB basically playing as a RB to cover him. I think the days of wingers giving us width is gone due to our players preferences, and while I think some people may prefer wingers for width over fullbacks, I think Pep did this to solve another problem
3) The David Silva problem, the player operating between spaces, it seems like from Pep's view, the best way to accomodate this is to play inverted wingers play between the lines (Ferran and Mahrez), and I think it was quite successful. This is also why we will see Foden constantly subbing on for the Wingers, because he can somewhat play this role for us. The problem might be Sterling who I think is the weakest of the 4 wingers in playing between the lines, perhaps the best role is for him to rotate in the striker positions (for example I could see Sterling and Foden up, instead of Jesus and KdB for rotation).
4) The 4th thing that the double pivot provides is KdB freedom, KdB was basically a striker for large portions in this game, very often I saw him even higher than Jesus. It's clear Pep is giving him the "Messi role" of just be wherever your needed, but unlike Messi, KdB isn't lazy and works on his defensive duties, and with Jesus we very often defended in a 442 when we lost the ball ala Atletico Madrid.
1) Rodri typically played deeper than Gundogan when needed and would actually play between the CBs many times, Gundogan almost never did this, this was the clear role for Rodri, and Gundogan had alot more freedom to playmake. I think these roles perfectly suited both of them and created a kind of 3-1 shape at the back to build play from.
2) It served the purpose of allowing our fullbacks to provide width, because Gundogan and Rodri would drop to the left or right side respectively. And while Mendy was more threatening than Walker, just the simple act of having Walker out wide meant we stretched the pitch giving our forwards more space. Now Walker still played inverted for many moments with Mendy wide so it wasn't strict in that sense, but usually when this happens I found it funny to see KdB basically playing as a RB to cover him. I think the days of wingers giving us width is gone due to our players preferences, and while I think some people may prefer wingers for width over fullbacks, I think Pep did this to solve another problem
3) The David Silva problem, the player operating between spaces, it seems like from Pep's view, the best way to accomodate this is to play inverted wingers play between the lines (Ferran and Mahrez), and I think it was quite successful. This is also why we will see Foden constantly subbing on for the Wingers, because he can somewhat play this role for us. The problem might be Sterling who I think is the weakest of the 4 wingers in playing between the lines, perhaps the best role is for him to rotate in the striker positions (for example I could see Sterling and Foden up, instead of Jesus and KdB for rotation).
4) The 4th thing that the double pivot provides is KdB freedom, KdB was basically a striker for large portions in this game, very often I saw him even higher than Jesus. It's clear Pep is giving him the "Messi role" of just be wherever your needed, but unlike Messi, KdB isn't lazy and works on his defensive duties, and with Jesus we very often defended in a 442 when we lost the ball ala Atletico Madrid.
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Good post.Something I noticed after a re-watch of 1st half (which I find makes gives me a stress-free way to look at the game) about our much hated Rodri-Gundogan double pivot and why it will stay permanently
1) Rodri typically played deeper than Gundogan when needed and would actually play between the CBs many times, Gundogan almost never did this, this was the clear role for Rodri, and Gundogan had alot more freedom to playmake. I think these roles perfectly suited both of them and created a kind of 3-1 shape at the back to build play from.
2) It served the purpose of allowing our fullbacks to provide width, because Gundogan and Rodri would drop to the left or right side respectively. And while Mendy was more threatening than Walker, just the simple act of having Walker out wide meant we stretched the pitch giving our forwards more space. Now Walker still played inverted for many moments with Mendy wide so it wasn't strict in that sense, but usually when this happens I found it funny to see KdB basically playing as a RB to cover him. I think the days of wingers giving us width is gone due to our players preferences, and while I think some people may prefer wingers for width over fullbacks, I think Pep did this to solve another problem
3) The David Silva problem, the player operating between spaces, it seems like from Pep's view, the best way to accomodate this is to play inverted wingers play between the lines (Ferran and Mahrez), and I think it was quite successful. This is also why we will see Foden constantly subbing on for the Wingers, because he can somewhat play this role for us. The problem might be Sterling who I think is the weakest of the 4 wingers in playing between the lines, perhaps the best role is for him to rotate in the striker positions (for example I could see Sterling and Foden up, instead of Jesus and KdB for rotation).
4) The 4th thing that the double pivot provides is KdB freedom, KdB was basically a striker for large portions in this game, very often I saw him even higher than Jesus. It's clear Pep is giving him the "Messi role" of just be wherever your needed, but unlike Messi, KdB isn't lazy and works on his defensive duties, and with Jesus we very often defended in a 442 when we lost the ball ala Atletico Madrid.
On the last point, I'm often hesitant to describe a deeper forward as a false 9 but Jesus as of late really seems to be playing that role. Not just a deeper forward, but he tends to pop up all over the place. De Bruyne is comfortably the best at attacking the space Jesus provides doing this, but Mahrez, Sterling, and Torres have all shown they can attack the spaces too. Although Mahrez seems to be the smartest at this of those 3 as of now based off what I've seen previously in this sense. Torres will grow into it. De Bruyne's average position in games involving Jesus is often the highest on the pitch, interestingly. I've often commented on the idea of a fluid front 3 but I've realised it's more of a 4. I'll be interested to see whether we adapt the tactic with Aguero in the team in any way.
All 4 points have 1 connecting player. Mendy. I'm not sure if it's him specifically or the fact he's a good quality attacking left-footed left back, but everything changes with and without him in the team. He's a good enough attacker to allow Gundogan to play deeper and nearer to Rodri (but slightly further forward), but on the left of him, which gives us more stability. Gundogan and Mendy link up well, which gives us the opportunity to use that width on the left. Plus Mendy is such an imposing threat on the left it lets the left sided winger drift in with more freedom. Put all of this together with Jesus floating around, that now gives De Bruyne freedom to do whatever he wants. In fact if done right it gives all the front four freedom to do what they want. (Just to be clear by freedom I mean not restricted by position, not doing literally anything they want).
I think the most significant goals scored against Burnley were the 3rd and the 4th. The 3rd involved Mendy getting into an ultra attacking position and the 4th involved Walker getting into an ultra attacking position. We haven't seen that for a while. Cancelo can obviously provide his own skills and he's clearly quality, but stylistically he's more of an upgrade on Danilo than a Walker/Mendy powerhouse type.
I agree on basically all points you made. I'm pretty sure Mendy in this team completely changes the dynamic.Good post.
On the last point, I'm often hesitant to describe a deeper forward as a false 9 but Jesus as of late really seems to be playing that role. Not just a deeper forward, but he tends to pop up all over the place. De Bruyne is comfortably the best at attacking the space Jesus provides doing this, but Mahrez, Sterling, and Torres have all shown they can attack the spaces too. Although Mahrez seems to be the smartest at this of those 3 as of now based off what I've seen previously in this sense. Torres will grow into it. De Bruyne's average position in games involving Jesus is often the highest on the pitch, interestingly. I've often commented on the idea of a fluid front 3 but I've realised it's more of a 4. I'll be interested to see whether we adapt the tactic with Aguero in the team in any way.
All 4 points have 1 connecting player. Mendy. I'm not sure if it's him specifically or the fact he's a good quality attacking left-footed left back, but everything changes with and without him in the team. He's a good enough attacker to allow Gundogan to play deeper and nearer to Rodri (but slightly further forward), but on the left of him, which gives us more stability. Gundogan and Mendy link up well, which gives us the opportunity to use that width on the left. Plus Mendy is such an imposing threat on the left it lets the left sided winger drift in with more freedom. Put all of this together with Jesus floating around, that now gives De Bruyne freedom to do whatever he wants. In fact if done right it gives all the front four freedom to do what they want. (Just to be clear by freedom I mean not restricted by position, not doing literally anything they want).
I think the most significant goals scored against Burnley were the 3rd and the 4th. The 3rd involved Mendy getting into an ultra attacking position and the 4th involved Walker getting into an ultra attacking position. We haven't seen that for a while. Cancelo can obviously provide his own skills and he's clearly quality, but stylistically he's more of an upgrade on Danilo than a Walker/Mendy powerhouse type.
Cancelo is weird in that on the left, he tends to come inside more and doesn't really provide the width Mendy does, but Cancelo still makes alot of chances.
Still think he should play there given how good he's been, probably with Foden to have a left footer, but also would like to see him get more time in his natural position where its alot easier for him to stay wide.
This is partly why I want Angelino back (but I think that ship has sailed) because he can play Mendy's role, and Zinchenko just can't. Zinny can play inverted well, but I think we need to move on from that, instead I could see him getting minutes in the double pivot.
The 3rd and 4th are my favourite as well for those reasons, it shows the promise of how we want to attack in the future, wide fullbacks. Not a coincidence that the rare time Walker actually overlapped with Mahrez we created a chance. I know people don't rate Walker as an attacking fullback, but honestly its as simple as run fast and cut the ball back (which he did) he doesn't need to think any more than that, a chance will be made.
While Stones and Mahrez got alot of plaudits in this game, rightfully so, I wanted to point out that Gundogan and Rodri were quite phenomenal in their own right in this game. I think they are adapting to each other overtime, learning what is required of them. Gundogan in particular absolutely dominated wherever he moved, and Rodri covered Mahrez on many occassions.
Oystercatcher28
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Gundogan and Rodri offer more than they ever get praised for. Hoping to see much more of that system and move away from previous season dynamics
Cheeky Txiki
Well-Known Member
I think the only problem occurs when we play a physical rapid side or a counterattacking side. Getting someone like Zakaria in would add a different dimension to that CDM position and I would be more happy with 4-2-3-1.Gundogan and Rodri offer more than they ever get praised for. Hoping to see much more of that system and move away from previous season dynamics
Fordyboy46
Well-Known Member
After leaving out every City player in my fantasy team for weeks now, I've put in Jesus and Mahrez for Fulham. I know I've jinxed it now, sorry
Easy to stop, if game stops for this kind of injury mandate player goes off the pitch for a HIA. Given the issues currently around footballers and dementia links the step would be a positiveNot just Burnley employing this ‘tactic’ lately, it’s blatant and cynical cheating. A terrible and dishonest exploitation of head injury protocols.
But yeah, City’s ‘tactical fouling’ is the real issue here