metalblue
Well-Known Member
You lefty tossers are very witty. I’m glad I stopped by.
Calling all Labourites, why do you Labour
- Thread starter Rascal
- Start date
You lefty tossers are very witty. I’m glad I stopped by.
salfordbluetrue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Jul 2013
- Messages
- 4,125
We have known since the invention of the micro chip that huge sways of jobs would be lost, mainly unskilled low paid jobs, reducing the working week and banning overtime did and would off set but not stop this.
metalblue
Well-Known Member
Well you might be on to something there. I’m sure @Ban-jani was mentioning something on this in another thread!
Seriously thou when you do one of those political compass things you’d be surprised how much right you have in you when you strongly identify with labour....well not you personally because you really are on the loony left (but I love you for it). Apparently I’ve got plenty of “left” idealism’s in me it seems.
Bluemanc100
Well-Known Member
Agreed but there are lots of people who, given a choice of work or benefits will choose to take the money for doing nothing...
urban genie
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 May 2008
- Messages
- 32,834
Or maybe some of us are at work and not on this place all day.
I iwll be home in time for KO so a real in depth answer will come after that
metalblue
Well-Known Member
salfordbluetrue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Jul 2013
- Messages
- 4,125
Also agreed but this is a chicken and egg case of poor education and limited opportunities, reducing immigration does reduce the pool so is somewhere to start
I'll lay my cards on the table.
We all have one thing in common - and that's an interest in City. 99.9% of us are fans, a few others are fans of other teams.
As for everything else, especially religion and politics, we have vastly different views, and I avoid those discussions because I don't want to fall out over those things when that is not the main reason we are here.
I was brought up in a Christian family and I am a Christian. My dad was my main influence in life, and he may well have taught some on here Religious Education in schools in South Manchester in the sixties and seventies.
My faith influences my political views. There are many people in society who cannot look after themselves, and I am happy to support a political system that first and foremost, looks after the weak and vulnerable. I am happy to pay more in a tax regime that works towards this, and I support social reform charities from my own income. A verse in our sermon on Sunday just gone challenged me about how I can enjoy a surplus of food and money, when my neighbour might be in need. As I said, my faith has a big say in how I live my life.
I worked for 40 years for the same company and took early retirement 18 months ago, with a pension that gives me a comfortable lifestyle. I was in the trade union throughout, not because I ever thought I would need to call upon their services, but because I knew they cared for and looked after those workers who were unable to voice their own concerns. I was happy to stand in solidarity with my co-workers and challenge the ethics put forward by our employer.
When it comes to local politics, our Lib Dem councillors are by far the most active, and when I moved to where I now live, 20 years ago, I realised for the first time that it was ok to vote for a party other than the Labour party, and I started to support the Lib Dems. I couldn't quite bring myself to turn away from Labour at national level though.
These days, I am more considerate with how I place my national vote. I have to think about my pension - my only income source - and my legacy to my two children. I have to ask myself whether I trust Labour or the Conservatives the most with my future, and the potential to continue to grow my pension. And I have to say that I think the Conservative Party are likely to handle the economy better than the Labour Party.
So, I'm traditionally a Labour voter, and at the next general election, I will be looking closely at the economy as the main factor in deciding where to cast my vote.
Political heroes? I thought Margaret Thatcher was a superb leader, and more recently, I had a lot of respect for Tony Blair. That isn't to say I agreed 100% with the policies of either.
From a selfish point of view, pension reforms introduced by George Osborne were a real game changer for me, enabling me far more control over my retirement options. The introduction of Gift Aid was important.
We all have one thing in common - and that's an interest in City. 99.9% of us are fans, a few others are fans of other teams.
As for everything else, especially religion and politics, we have vastly different views, and I avoid those discussions because I don't want to fall out over those things when that is not the main reason we are here.
I was brought up in a Christian family and I am a Christian. My dad was my main influence in life, and he may well have taught some on here Religious Education in schools in South Manchester in the sixties and seventies.
My faith influences my political views. There are many people in society who cannot look after themselves, and I am happy to support a political system that first and foremost, looks after the weak and vulnerable. I am happy to pay more in a tax regime that works towards this, and I support social reform charities from my own income. A verse in our sermon on Sunday just gone challenged me about how I can enjoy a surplus of food and money, when my neighbour might be in need. As I said, my faith has a big say in how I live my life.
I worked for 40 years for the same company and took early retirement 18 months ago, with a pension that gives me a comfortable lifestyle. I was in the trade union throughout, not because I ever thought I would need to call upon their services, but because I knew they cared for and looked after those workers who were unable to voice their own concerns. I was happy to stand in solidarity with my co-workers and challenge the ethics put forward by our employer.
When it comes to local politics, our Lib Dem councillors are by far the most active, and when I moved to where I now live, 20 years ago, I realised for the first time that it was ok to vote for a party other than the Labour party, and I started to support the Lib Dems. I couldn't quite bring myself to turn away from Labour at national level though.
These days, I am more considerate with how I place my national vote. I have to think about my pension - my only income source - and my legacy to my two children. I have to ask myself whether I trust Labour or the Conservatives the most with my future, and the potential to continue to grow my pension. And I have to say that I think the Conservative Party are likely to handle the economy better than the Labour Party.
So, I'm traditionally a Labour voter, and at the next general election, I will be looking closely at the economy as the main factor in deciding where to cast my vote.
Political heroes? I thought Margaret Thatcher was a superb leader, and more recently, I had a lot of respect for Tony Blair. That isn't to say I agreed 100% with the policies of either.
From a selfish point of view, pension reforms introduced by George Osborne were a real game changer for me, enabling me far more control over my retirement options. The introduction of Gift Aid was important.
Last edited:
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Deleted member 77198
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I voted Labour when I was a young adult because I believed I was “working class” and Labour was where the “working class” vote went.
As I got a bit older, after they’d lead us into an illegal war and taken £17k out of all of our pensions, after finding myself not agreeing with their immigration policy or how they were dealing with welfare, I also don’t think they actually do a lot of what they say they will in manifestos; I started to abstain from voting in elections.
The party I thought spoke for me weren’t what I wanted to vote for, and I didn’t want to vote for anyone else.
New Labour had gone so Labour started peaking my interest again, but I found the 2017 Labour manifesto too unbelievable. That list of where money needed spending, and where and how much money was going to be spent, all adding up (to the penny) to exactly to what was needed; was like reading something from a child’s maths book. It was like they thought we were stupid. Then I found their total lack of sense in the 2019 General Election towards Britain leaving the EU made them unelectable, and, from experience, I had suspicions on them not coming through with their pledge of free WiFi for the everyone in country (something I think should happen!). They also aren’t strong enough on Green issues.
In recent years, I’ve found the language used by the Left (not necessarily the Labour Party, more widely the left wing of the nation, but not not the Labour Party) is far too negative. Pointing the finger at other entities for why everything is shit, why our lives are shit, why we’re oppressed, why someone else is oppressed, constantly picking holes in everything the “other side” are doing that contributes to why things are shit, moaning about the moderate right wing and accusing them of being far right, accusing moderate people with moderate views of being racist, accusing people who want controls on immigration as being racist, seeing racism in everything, things like something that was said on the Tory thread that said “working class Tory voters are traitors to the working class”, even moaning that Kier Starmer is a neo-Liberal, telling us that capitalism is evil and holds down the “working class” (when a hell of a lot of “working class” people have never been in a better position because of capitalism), language like “this country is shit”, even country-hating language, even things like on this forum where people were jumping to the defence of the EU over a UK Pharma company and top university because they just can’t be seen backing something British, there’s a lot of country hating language and lack of patriotism, patriotism is even laughed at and conflated (probably purposely) with nationalism... to a lot of people all it is is just moan moan fucking moan, negative negative fucking negative... and a complete lack of progressive aspirational positive realistic language.
Negativity switches people off!
In recent elections I’ve voted Green, mainly because they knocked on my door and spoke to me about my political views, also because I think Green issues are the most important thing going on in the world and the other political parties don’t concentrate on them enough, and also as a bit of a non-Labour vote because I’m a bit lost with them and I think they needed a shake-up and not voting for them would get rid of those I didn’t want in the party. I didn’t even agree with the Green’s stance on Brexit but at least they had one.
But I’ve abstained in the past, and look at how many people don’t vote:
That^ was from 2017, but 15.5m registered voters didn’t vote in 2019!
With greater emphasis on progressive aspirational positive realistic language, from people on the left as well as the Labour Party, might get some of these people to the polling stations and might stop people like me not voting for Labour.
I even think that if left wing people just shut the fuck up for a bit, more people might start paying attention to what the Labour Party are actually saying and switch on a bit more with them because it’s not accompanied with a sea of negativity.
But the party itself needs to get in-line with what a lot of traditional voters views are on immigration and welfare. People who live in areas that are just used as immigrant dumping zones are often negatively affected by immigration. Income can also be affected by immigration as a Romanian joiner will give you a quote for much less than your local British joiner might. It’s alright for the metropolitan elite to think immigration positively affects the country, but go to these high immigration areas and speak to the people who’ve lived there for decades (including people who are from previous immigrant populations themselves!) and actually listen to what they’re saying.
Then there’s experience of people who live in traditional Labour areas living next door to piss taking scrounging cunts who’ve been paid benefits and given a free car on disability when there’s fuck all up with them...
I like the new immigration policy we’ve got, and I’d like to see a complete shake-up of the welfare system. Universal Credit is shite, but so is the Labour way of dishing money out willy-nilly. I have a very individual view on welfare and maybe that’s where I’m often a bit lost in politics - welfare should not go to individual households because it’s too easy to take the piss and it doesn’t benefit the community as a whole. Single low paid men, for example, do not see any benefits from any welfare system I’ve ever seen. Welfare should go into communities and welfare money put into better education on shopping and cooking (the biggest area money is wasted in the working class household) and into things like free WiFi (just make sure I trust you’ll come through with it) more social and affordable housing, among many other things, so that households have more free cash to ensure they don’t need benefits.
I’m holding out to see where Kier Starmer takes Labour and what he’s like. And most importantly to me what his views are on Green issues, the nationalisation of public services, immigration, and welfare.
Maybe Kier Starmer is what gets me back on side with Labour?!
As I got a bit older, after they’d lead us into an illegal war and taken £17k out of all of our pensions, after finding myself not agreeing with their immigration policy or how they were dealing with welfare, I also don’t think they actually do a lot of what they say they will in manifestos; I started to abstain from voting in elections.
The party I thought spoke for me weren’t what I wanted to vote for, and I didn’t want to vote for anyone else.
New Labour had gone so Labour started peaking my interest again, but I found the 2017 Labour manifesto too unbelievable. That list of where money needed spending, and where and how much money was going to be spent, all adding up (to the penny) to exactly to what was needed; was like reading something from a child’s maths book. It was like they thought we were stupid. Then I found their total lack of sense in the 2019 General Election towards Britain leaving the EU made them unelectable, and, from experience, I had suspicions on them not coming through with their pledge of free WiFi for the everyone in country (something I think should happen!). They also aren’t strong enough on Green issues.
In recent years, I’ve found the language used by the Left (not necessarily the Labour Party, more widely the left wing of the nation, but not not the Labour Party) is far too negative. Pointing the finger at other entities for why everything is shit, why our lives are shit, why we’re oppressed, why someone else is oppressed, constantly picking holes in everything the “other side” are doing that contributes to why things are shit, moaning about the moderate right wing and accusing them of being far right, accusing moderate people with moderate views of being racist, accusing people who want controls on immigration as being racist, seeing racism in everything, things like something that was said on the Tory thread that said “working class Tory voters are traitors to the working class”, even moaning that Kier Starmer is a neo-Liberal, telling us that capitalism is evil and holds down the “working class” (when a hell of a lot of “working class” people have never been in a better position because of capitalism), language like “this country is shit”, even country-hating language, even things like on this forum where people were jumping to the defence of the EU over a UK Pharma company and top university because they just can’t be seen backing something British, there’s a lot of country hating language and lack of patriotism, patriotism is even laughed at and conflated (probably purposely) with nationalism... to a lot of people all it is is just moan moan fucking moan, negative negative fucking negative... and a complete lack of progressive aspirational positive realistic language.
Negativity switches people off!
In recent elections I’ve voted Green, mainly because they knocked on my door and spoke to me about my political views, also because I think Green issues are the most important thing going on in the world and the other political parties don’t concentrate on them enough, and also as a bit of a non-Labour vote because I’m a bit lost with them and I think they needed a shake-up and not voting for them would get rid of those I didn’t want in the party. I didn’t even agree with the Green’s stance on Brexit but at least they had one.
But I’ve abstained in the past, and look at how many people don’t vote:
That^ was from 2017, but 15.5m registered voters didn’t vote in 2019!
With greater emphasis on progressive aspirational positive realistic language, from people on the left as well as the Labour Party, might get some of these people to the polling stations and might stop people like me not voting for Labour.
I even think that if left wing people just shut the fuck up for a bit, more people might start paying attention to what the Labour Party are actually saying and switch on a bit more with them because it’s not accompanied with a sea of negativity.
But the party itself needs to get in-line with what a lot of traditional voters views are on immigration and welfare. People who live in areas that are just used as immigrant dumping zones are often negatively affected by immigration. Income can also be affected by immigration as a Romanian joiner will give you a quote for much less than your local British joiner might. It’s alright for the metropolitan elite to think immigration positively affects the country, but go to these high immigration areas and speak to the people who’ve lived there for decades (including people who are from previous immigrant populations themselves!) and actually listen to what they’re saying.
Then there’s experience of people who live in traditional Labour areas living next door to piss taking scrounging cunts who’ve been paid benefits and given a free car on disability when there’s fuck all up with them...
I like the new immigration policy we’ve got, and I’d like to see a complete shake-up of the welfare system. Universal Credit is shite, but so is the Labour way of dishing money out willy-nilly. I have a very individual view on welfare and maybe that’s where I’m often a bit lost in politics - welfare should not go to individual households because it’s too easy to take the piss and it doesn’t benefit the community as a whole. Single low paid men, for example, do not see any benefits from any welfare system I’ve ever seen. Welfare should go into communities and welfare money put into better education on shopping and cooking (the biggest area money is wasted in the working class household) and into things like free WiFi (just make sure I trust you’ll come through with it) more social and affordable housing, among many other things, so that households have more free cash to ensure they don’t need benefits.
I’m holding out to see where Kier Starmer takes Labour and what he’s like. And most importantly to me what his views are on Green issues, the nationalisation of public services, immigration, and welfare.
Maybe Kier Starmer is what gets me back on side with Labour?!