Calling all Labourites, why do you Labour

[metalblue]

I voted Labour when I was a young adult because I believed I was “working class” and Labour was where the “working class” vote went.

As I got a bit older, after they’d lead us into an illegal war and taken £17k out of all of our pensions, after finding myself not agreeing with their immigration policy or how they were dealing with welfare, I also don’t think they actually do a lot of what they say they will in manifestos; I started to abstain from voting in elections.

The party I thought spoke for me weren’t what I wanted to vote for, and I didn’t want to vote for anyone else.

New Labour had gone so Labour started peaking my interest again, but I found the 2017 Labour manifesto too unbelievable. That list of where money needed spending, and where and how much money was going to be spent, all adding up (to the penny) to exactly to what was needed; was like reading something from a child’s maths book. It was like they thought we were stupid. Then I found their total lack of sense in the 2019 General Election towards Britain leaving the EU made them unelectable, and, from experience, I had suspicions on them not coming through with their pledge of free WiFi for the everyone in country (something I think should happen!). They also aren’t strong enough on Green issues.

In recent years, I’ve found the language used by the Left (not necessarily the Labour Party, more widely the left wing of the nation, but not not the Labour Party) is far too negative. Pointing the finger at other entities for why everything is shit, why our lives are shit, why we’re oppressed, why someone else is oppressed, constantly picking holes in everything the “other side” are doing that contributes to why things are shit, moaning about the moderate right wing and accusing them of being far right, accusing moderate people with moderate views of being racist, accusing people who want controls on immigration as being racist, seeing racism in everything, things like something that was said on the Tory thread that said “working class Tory voters are traitors to the working class”, even moaning that Kier Starmer is a neo-Liberal, telling us that capitalism is evil and holds down the “working class” (when a hell of a lot of “working class” people have never been in a better position because of capitalism), language like “this country is shit”, even country-hating language, even things like on this forum where people were jumping to the defence of the EU over a UK Pharma company and top university because they just can’t be seen backing something British, there’s a lot of country hating language and lack of patriotism, patriotism is even laughed at and conflated (probably purposely) with nationalism... to a lot of people all it is is just moan moan fucking moan, negative negative fucking negative... and a complete lack of progressive aspirational positive realistic language.

Negativity switches people off!

In recent elections I’ve voted Green, mainly because they knocked on my door and spoke to me about my political views, also because I think Green issues are the most important thing going on in the world and the other political parties don’t concentrate on them enough, and also as a bit of a non-Labour vote because I’m a bit lost with them and I think they needed a shake-up and not voting for them would get rid of those I didn’t want in the party. I didn’t even agree with the Green’s stance on Brexit but at least they had one.

But I’ve abstained in the past, and look at how many people don’t vote:

View attachment 9512

That^ was from 2017, but 15.5m registered voters didn’t vote in 2019!

With greater emphasis on progressive aspirational positive realistic language, from people on the left as well as the Labour Party, might get some of these people to the polling stations and might stop people like me not voting for Labour.

I even think that if left wing people just shut the fuck up for a bit, more people might start paying attention to what the Labour Party are actually saying and switch on a bit more with them because it’s not accompanied with a sea of negativity.

But the party itself needs to get in-line with what a lot of traditional voters views are on immigration and welfare. People who live in areas that are just used as immigrant dumping zones are often negatively affected by immigration. Income can also be affected by immigration as a Romanian joiner will give you a quote for much less than your local British joiner might. It’s alright for the metropolitan elite to think immigration positively affects the country, but go to these high immigration areas and speak to the people who’ve lived there for decades (including people who are from previous immigrant populations themselves!) and actually listen to what they’re saying.

Then there’s experience of people who live in traditional Labour areas living next door to piss taking scrounging cunts who’ve been paid benefits and given a free car on disability when there’s fuck all up with them...

I like the new immigration policy we’ve got, and I’d like to see a complete shake-up of the welfare system. Universal Credit is shite, but so is the Labour way of dishing money out willy-nilly. I have a very individual view on welfare and maybe that’s where I’m often a bit lost in politics - welfare should not go to individual households because it’s too easy to take the piss and it doesn’t benefit the community as a whole. Single low paid men, for example, do not see any benefits from any welfare system I’ve ever seen. Welfare should go into communities and welfare money put into better education on shopping and cooking (the biggest area money is wasted in the working class household) and into things like free WiFi (just make sure I trust you’ll come through with it) more social and affordable housing, among many other things, so that households have more free cash to ensure they don’t need benefits.

I’m holding out to see where Kier Starmer takes Labour and what he’s like. And most importantly to me what his views are on Green issues, the nationalisation of public services, immigration, and welfare.

Maybe Kier Starmer is what gets me back on side with Labour?!

I’m voting for this fucker.

 

[Rascal]

Well you might be on to something there. I’m sure @Ban-jani was mentioning something on this in another thread!

Seriously thou when you do one of those political compass things you’d be surprised how much right you have in you when you strongly identify with labour....well not you personally because you really are on the loony left (but I love you for it). Apparently I’ve got plenty of “left” idealism’s in me it seems.

I don't care what Banjani says, the boy is a clown.

Last time I did a political compass thingy I broke it. I was off their scale.

 

[Rascal]

I'll lay my cards on the table.

We all have one thing in common - and that's an interest in City. 99.9% of us are fans, a few others are fans of other teams.

As for everything else, especially religion and politics, we have vastly different views, and I avoid those discussions because I don't want to fall out over those things when that is not the main reason we are here.

I was brought up in a Christian family and I am a Christian. My dad was my main influence in life, and he may well have taught some on here Religious Education in schools in South Manchester in the sixties and seventies.

My faith influences my political views. There are many people in society who cannot look after themselves, and I am happy to support a political system that first and foremost, looks after the weak and vulnerable. I am happy to pay more in a tax regime that works towards this, and I support social reform charities from my own income. A verse in our sermon on Sunday just gone challenged me about how I can enjoy a surplus of food and money, when my neighbour might be in need. As I said, my faith has a big say in how I live my life.

I worked for 40 years for the same company and took early retirement 18 months ago, with a pension that gives me a comfortable lifestyle. I was in the trade union throughout, not because I ever thought I would need to call upon their services, but because I knew they cared for and looked after those workers who were unable to voice their own concerns. I was happy to stand in solidarity with my co-workers and challenge the ethics put forward by our employer.

When it comes to local politics, our Lib Dem councillors are by far the most active, and when I moved to where I now live, 20 years ago, I realised for the first time that it was ok to vote for a party other than the Labour party, and I started to support the Lib Dems. I couldn't quite bring myself to turn away from Labor at national level though.

These days, I am more considerate with how I place my national vote. I have to think about my pension - my only income source - and my legacy to my two children. I have to ask myself whether I trust Labour or the Conservatives the most with my future, and the potential to continue to grow my pension. And I have to say that I think the Conservative Party are likely to handle the economy better than the Labour Party.

So, I'm traditionally a Labour voter, and at the next general election, I will be looking closely at the economy as the main factor in deciding where to cast my vote.

Political heroes? I thought Margaret Thatcher was a superb leader, and more recently, I had a lot of respect for Tony Blair. That isn't too say I agreed 100% with the policies of either.

From a selfish point of view, pension reforms introduced by George Osborne were a real game changer for me, enabling me far more control over my retirement options. The introduction of Gift Aid was important.

What a tremendous post, I don''t have to agree with all you say to admire your sentiment.

Chapeau.

 

[Rascal]

I voted Labour when I was a young adult because I believed I was “working class” and Labour was where the “working class” vote went.

As I got a bit older, after they’d lead us into an illegal war and taken £17k out of all of our pensions, after finding myself not agreeing with their immigration policy or how they were dealing with welfare, I also don’t think they actually do a lot of what they say they will in manifestos; I started to abstain from voting in elections.

The party I thought spoke for me weren’t what I wanted to vote for, and I didn’t want to vote for anyone else.

New Labour had gone so Labour started peaking my interest again, but I found the 2017 Labour manifesto too unbelievable. That list of where money needed spending, and where and how much money was going to be spent, all adding up (to the penny) to exactly to what was needed; was like reading something from a child’s maths book. It was like they thought we were stupid. Then I found their total lack of sense in the 2019 General Election towards Britain leaving the EU made them unelectable, and, from experience, I had suspicions on them not coming through with their pledge of free WiFi for the everyone in country (something I think should happen!). They also aren’t strong enough on Green issues.

In recent years, I’ve found the language used by the Left (not necessarily the Labour Party, more widely the left wing of the nation, but not not the Labour Party) is far too negative. Pointing the finger at other entities for why everything is shit, why our lives are shit, why we’re oppressed, why someone else is oppressed, constantly picking holes in everything the “other side” are doing that contributes to why things are shit, moaning about the moderate right wing and accusing them of being far right, accusing moderate people with moderate views of being racist, accusing people who want controls on immigration as being racist, seeing racism in everything, things like something that was said on the Tory thread that said “working class Tory voters are traitors to the working class”, even moaning that Kier Starmer is a neo-Liberal, telling us that capitalism is evil and holds down the “working class” (when a hell of a lot of “working class” people have never been in a better position because of capitalism), language like “this country is shit”, even country-hating language, even things like on this forum where people were jumping to the defence of the EU over a UK Pharma company and top university because they just can’t be seen backing something British, there’s a lot of country hating language and lack of patriotism, patriotism is even laughed at and conflated (probably purposely) with nationalism... to a lot of people all it is is just moan moan fucking moan, negative negative fucking negative... and a complete lack of progressive aspirational positive realistic language.

Negativity switches people off!

In recent elections I’ve voted Green, mainly because they knocked on my door and spoke to me about my political views, also because I think Green issues are the most important thing going on in the world and the other political parties don’t concentrate on them enough, and also as a bit of a non-Labour vote because I’m a bit lost with them and I think they needed a shake-up and not voting for them would get rid of those I didn’t want in the party. I didn’t even agree with the Green’s stance on Brexit but at least they had one.

But I’ve abstained in the past, and look at how many people don’t vote:

View attachment 9512

That^ was from 2017, but 15.5m registered voters didn’t vote in 2019!

With greater emphasis on progressive aspirational positive realistic language, from people on the left as well as the Labour Party, might get some of these people to the polling stations and might stop people like me not voting for Labour.

I even think that if left wing people just shut the fuck up for a bit, more people might start paying attention to what the Labour Party are actually saying and switch on a bit more with them because it’s not accompanied with a sea of negativity.

But the party itself needs to get in-line with what a lot of traditional voters views are on immigration and welfare. People who live in areas that are just used as immigrant dumping zones are often negatively affected by immigration. Income can also be affected by immigration as a Romanian joiner will give you a quote for much less than your local British joiner might. It’s alright for the metropolitan elite to think immigration positively affects the country, but go to these high immigration areas and speak to the people who’ve lived there for decades (including people who are from previous immigrant populations themselves!) and actually listen to what they’re saying.

Then there’s experience of people who live in traditional Labour areas living next door to piss taking scrounging cunts who’ve been paid benefits and given a free car on disability when there’s fuck all up with them...

I like the new immigration policy we’ve got, and I’d like to see a complete shake-up of the welfare system. Universal Credit is shite, but so is the Labour way of dishing money out willy-nilly. I have a very individual view on welfare and maybe that’s where I’m often a bit lost in politics - welfare should not go to individual households because it’s too easy to take the piss and it doesn’t benefit the community as a whole. Single low paid men, for example, do not see any benefits from any welfare system I’ve ever seen. Welfare should go into communities and welfare money put into better education on shopping and cooking (the biggest area money is wasted in the working class household) and into things like free WiFi (just make sure I trust you’ll come through with it) more social and affordable housing, among many other things, so that households have more free cash to ensure they don’t need benefits.

I’m holding out to see where Kier Starmer takes Labour and what he’s like. And most importantly to me what his views are on Green issues, the nationalisation of public services, immigration, and welfare.

Maybe Kier Starmer is what gets me back on side with Labour?!

Another superb post.

Chapeau,

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Come from a socialist family background. Paraded the council estate I lived on on election days from as young as I can remember. Was on stage with Harold Wilson at 7 years old (1969). Steeped is the word I would use. By 16 was active in the party in Liverpool ( just in time for militant). What a shit hole and what a load of shites. Physical and verbal intimidation. Real threats and dubious actions. Oh how I cheered at the Labour party conference in 1985. Kinnock roasting Militant. Became a council candidate in local party in Leeds in late 80s but had to withdraw. I was considered a moderniser. I was a successful professional from working class background. A success story for the welfare state. Education (including grants) and universal healthcare were my enablers. My father, a Christian Marxist, fell out of love with Labour after Foot was booted out. He wanted capitalism to run amuck and bring on the revolution. He saw socialism as a sticking plaster on capitalism, preventing the rise of Marxism. He felt Thatcher was the blessing in disguise. He believed the poll tax riots were the start of the end. He died before seeing that resolution.
I dug Blaire. More importantly I dug the Blair Brown combo. Smith was the first leader I totally believed in but that combo was close. I believed in the spirit of 97 before Blair betrayed us with Iraq. I also found his conversation to Catholicism disturbing. Found Corbyn anachronistic and still fighting 50 year old battles. He was a joke but still voted labour while my red wall constituency turned Tory. I will never forgive Corbyn or Momentum for putting their vanity before the needs of the country.
The Labour party is, and always has been about the push and pull of socialism and capitalism. The reality is it is about mitigating capitalism. Maximising affluence, taking a cut and distributing it fairly. Providing a levelling of the playing field through education to allow us all to make the most of ourselves. Noble, enabling and achievable.
The argument has moved on from the preferred economic model within individual countries onto the globalisation and power of multi nationals. The economic argument for socialism has been lost and has failed where it has been tried.
It is Social policy and the real outcomes of social policy that should define the political choice and should be driven by the needs of the many. I vote for labour as I believe any vote for Tory is about self interest, cronyism and eliteism
Liberals are just soft Tories.

 

[Rascal]

Come from a socialist family background. Paraded the council estate I lived on on election days from as young as I can remember. Was on stage with Harold Wilson at 7 years old (1969). Steeped is the word I would use. By 16 was active in the party in Liverpool ( just in time for militant). What a shit hole and what a load of shites. Physical and verbal intimidation. Real threats and dubious actions. Oh how I cheered at the Labour party conference in 1985. Kinnock roasting Militant. Became a council candidate in local party in Leeds in late 80s but had to withdraw. I was considered a moderniser. I was a successful professional from working class background. A success story for the welfare state. Education (including grants) and universal healthcare were my enablers. My father, a Christian Marxist, fell out of love with Labour after Foot was booted out. He wanted capitalism to run amuck and bring on the revolution. He saw socialism as a sticking plaster on capitalism, preventing the rise of Marxism. He felt Thatcher was the blessing in disguise. He believed the poll tax riots were the start of the end. He died before seeing that resolution.
I dug Blaire. More importantly I dug the Blair Brown combo. Smith was the first leader I totally believed in but that combo was close. I believed in the spirit of 97 before Blair betrayed us with Iraq. I also found his conversation to Catholicism disturbing. Found Corbyn anachronistic and still fighting 50 year old battles. He was a joke but still voted labour while my red wall constituency turned Tory. I will never forgive Corbyn or Momentum for putting their vanity before the needs of the country.
The Labour party is, and always has been about the push and pull of socialism and capitalism. The reality is it is about mitigating capitalism. Maximising affluence, taking a cut and distributing it fairly. Providing a levelling of the playing field through education to allow us all to make the most of ourselves. Noble, enabling and achievable.
The argument has moved on from the preferred economic model within individual countries onto the globalisation and power of multi nationals. The economic argument for socialism has been lost and has failed where it has been tried.
It is Social policy and the real outcomes of social policy that should define the political choice and should be driven by the needs of the many. I vote for labour as I believe any vote for Tory is about self interest, cronyism and eliteism
Liberals are just soft Tories.

Another superb post. I think i would have got on well with your dad and agreed with a lot of his thoughts. Sounded a belting fella

Chapeau

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Another superb post. I think i would have got on well with your dad and agreed with a lot of his thoughts. Sounded a belting fella

Chapeau

He got me into City even though I grew up in Liverpool... (Born Manchester though).
He was a character. Not a great father though.

 

[Ban-jani]

I voted Labour when I was a young adult because I believed I was “working class” and Labour was where the “working class” vote went.

As I got a bit older, after they’d lead us into an illegal war and taken £17k out of all of our pensions, after finding myself not agreeing with their immigration policy or how they were dealing with welfare, I also don’t think they actually do a lot of what they say they will in manifestos; I started to abstain from voting in elections.

The party I thought spoke for me weren’t what I wanted to vote for, and I didn’t want to vote for anyone else.

New Labour had gone so Labour started peaking my interest again, but I found the 2017 Labour manifesto too unbelievable. That list of where money needed spending, and where and how much money was going to be spent, all adding up (to the penny) to exactly to what was needed; was like reading something from a child’s maths book. It was like they thought we were stupid. Then I found their total lack of sense in the 2019 General Election towards Britain leaving the EU made them unelectable, and, from experience, I had suspicions on them not coming through with their pledge of free WiFi for the everyone in country (something I think should happen!). They also aren’t strong enough on Green issues.

In recent years, I’ve found the language used by the Left (not necessarily the Labour Party, more widely the left wing of the nation, but not not the Labour Party) is far too negative. Pointing the finger at other entities for why everything is shit, why our lives are shit, why we’re oppressed, why someone else is oppressed, constantly picking holes in everything the “other side” are doing that contributes to why things are shit, moaning about the moderate right wing and accusing them of being far right, accusing moderate people with moderate views of being racist, accusing people who want controls on immigration as being racist, seeing racism in everything, things like something that was said on the Tory thread that said “working class Tory voters are traitors to the working class”, even moaning that Kier Starmer is a neo-Liberal, telling us that capitalism is evil and holds down the “working class” (when a hell of a lot of “working class” people have never been in a better position because of capitalism), language like “this country is shit”, even country-hating language, even things like on this forum where people were jumping to the defence of the EU over a UK Pharma company and top university because they just can’t be seen backing something British, there’s a lot of country hating language and lack of patriotism, patriotism is even laughed at and conflated (probably purposely) with nationalism... to a lot of people all it is is just moan moan fucking moan, negative negative fucking negative... and a complete lack of progressive aspirational positive realistic language.

Negativity switches people off!

In recent elections I’ve voted Green, mainly because they knocked on my door and spoke to me about my political views, also because I think Green issues are the most important thing going on in the world and the other political parties don’t concentrate on them enough, and also as a bit of a non-Labour vote because I’m a bit lost with them and I think they needed a shake-up and not voting for them would get rid of those I didn’t want in the party. I didn’t even agree with the Green’s stance on Brexit but at least they had one.

But I’ve abstained in the past, and look at how many people don’t vote:

View attachment 9512

That^ was from 2017, but 15.5m registered voters didn’t vote in 2019!

With greater emphasis on progressive aspirational positive realistic language, from people on the left as well as the Labour Party, might get some of these people to the polling stations and might stop people like me not voting for Labour.

I even think that if left wing people just shut the fuck up for a bit, more people might start paying attention to what the Labour Party are actually saying and switch on a bit more with them because it’s not accompanied with a sea of negativity.

But the party itself needs to get in-line with what a lot of traditional voters views are on immigration and welfare. People who live in areas that are just used as immigrant dumping zones are often negatively affected by immigration. Income can also be affected by immigration as a Romanian joiner will give you a quote for much less than your local British joiner might. It’s alright for the metropolitan elite to think immigration positively affects the country, but go to these high immigration areas and speak to the people who’ve lived there for decades (including people who are from previous immigrant populations themselves!) and actually listen to what they’re saying.

Then there’s experience of people who live in traditional Labour areas living next door to piss taking scrounging cunts who’ve been paid benefits and given a free car on disability when there’s fuck all up with them...

I like the new immigration policy we’ve got, and I’d like to see a complete shake-up of the welfare system. Universal Credit is shite, but so is the Labour way of dishing money out willy-nilly. I have a very individual view on welfare and maybe that’s where I’m often a bit lost in politics - welfare should not go to individual households because it’s too easy to take the piss and it doesn’t benefit the community as a whole. Single low paid men, for example, do not see any benefits from any welfare system I’ve ever seen. Welfare should go into communities and welfare money put into better education on shopping and cooking (the biggest area money is wasted in the working class household) and into things like free WiFi (just make sure I trust you’ll come through with it) more social and affordable housing, among many other things, so that households have more free cash to ensure they don’t need benefits.

I’m holding out to see where Kier Starmer takes Labour and what he’s like. And most importantly to me what his views are on Green issues, the nationalisation of public services, immigration, and welfare.

Maybe Kier Starmer is what gets me back on side with Labour?!

Fucking hell, this is a magnificent post.

You should get paid for this.

 

[Ban-jani]

I'll lay my cards on the table.

We all have one thing in common - and that's an interest in City. 99.9% of us are fans, a few others are fans of other teams.

As for everything else, especially religion and politics, we have vastly different views, and I avoid those discussions because I don't want to fall out over those things when that is not the main reason we are here.

I was brought up in a Christian family and I am a Christian. My dad was my main influence in life, and he may well have taught some on here Religious Education in schools in South Manchester in the sixties and seventies.

My faith influences my political views. There are many people in society who cannot look after themselves, and I am happy to support a political system that first and foremost, looks after the weak and vulnerable. I am happy to pay more in a tax regime that works towards this, and I support social reform charities from my own income. A verse in our sermon on Sunday just gone challenged me about how I can enjoy a surplus of food and money, when my neighbour might be in need. As I said, my faith has a big say in how I live my life.

I worked for 40 years for the same company and took early retirement 18 months ago, with a pension that gives me a comfortable lifestyle. I was in the trade union throughout, not because I ever thought I would need to call upon their services, but because I knew they cared for and looked after those workers who were unable to voice their own concerns. I was happy to stand in solidarity with my co-workers and challenge the ethics put forward by our employer.

When it comes to local politics, our Lib Dem councillors are by far the most active, and when I moved to where I now live, 20 years ago, I realised for the first time that it was ok to vote for a party other than the Labour party, and I started to support the Lib Dems. I couldn't quite bring myself to turn away from Labor at national level though.

These days, I am more considerate with how I place my national vote. I have to think about my pension - my only income source - and my legacy to my two children. I have to ask myself whether I trust Labour or the Conservatives the most with my future, and the potential to continue to grow my pension. And I have to say that I think the Conservative Party are likely to handle the economy better than the Labour Party.

So, I'm traditionally a Labour voter, and at the next general election, I will be looking closely at the economy as the main factor in deciding where to cast my vote.

Political heroes? I thought Margaret Thatcher was a superb leader, and more recently, I had a lot of respect for Tony Blair. That isn't too say I agreed 100% with the policies of either.

From a selfish point of view, pension reforms introduced by George Osborne were a real game changer for me, enabling me far more control over my retirement options. The introduction of Gift Aid was important.

Another great post.
You’re correct about faith, it checks everything you do.

 

[urban genie]

It's an interesting question as Labour as a movement, the internationalist belief that unity is strength and protecting and strengthening the interests of all workers and all the classes below the elite within capitalism, is a belief I stick too.

The above belief was formed throughout my life.
As a child my dad worked in a factory and my mam work on admin until I was born where she then changed and worked nights in robies jam factory

Our street was very typical all the neighbours knew each other, at least half worked in the same local factories or shops and so me and my brother were brought up in a strong cummuninty spirited area where most looked out for each other.

My granddad worked where my dad did and me gran worked admin for the police, they lived in bradford in on a council estate where all the locals were as our street community wise and when we stayed round on a weekend the night would be spent in Bradford Labour Club, so I was brought up with a strong sense communal society working together and looking after each other, my family insisted on teaching us to respect everybody and everyone was equal no mater race or sex, I am also baptised a catholic and on my dads side it was more prominent, when younger I was quite into it and read christ story extensively which again steered me into a more socially consious path as the core idea of equality and respect, and rejection of craving money and power made sense to me (Conservative claiming to follow christs teaching is paradoxical) the idea stayed with me when Istopped blieving in an all pwerfull being though.

Anyway alongside that I grew up in the 80s, I watched local communities split up, factories shut down, british assets flogged off, my dad on strike because company cars were valued more than workers when it came to cutting costs, we lived on strike pay and the solidarity of those people fighting for jobs and better conditions shaped my resolve that what we had ruling us was just wrong.
I admit I was also openly subject to negative comments about tories all the time, but I could see it for my own self how our area change, I was also shown what tossers some of the left wing were especially socialist worker

Now not to brag but I was a grade A student, top of the class etc, so I spent most of my spare time reading, books anything from history, not just british but global, economics, socialism, capitalism, geography, theology etc always from different perspectives and that shaped a lot pf the views I have.

I was alway pretty disinterested with money, property and accumilating wealth, so I cannot empithise with consevatisms need to aquire it excessively.

I trained in a profession where workers rights are pretty sketchy and shift/hrs/days worked can be well beyond what the labour movement would like, and those experiences have shaped my beliefs in away where I get a lot of shit off friends who are union members and socialist alike a lot (I have a distain for many uk unions, but not the union movement)

I started traveling the world when I turned 19 and worked seasonally and I admit I have since been influenced by thinking behind budhism and it's social impact on countries it dominates which I belive is somewhat in tune with my socialist beliefs but different influences have altered my socialism many times, I don't believe in unilateral pacifism I don't believe in restricting peoples right to work when they want and how long for as long as they are properly paid for it, I don't believe in monarchy or a ruling class as a necessity to patriotism or love of country, I do believe you should be proud of your nation etc.
I do believe we can have a functioning socialist society and prosper

When it comes to the Labour party though, the first time I was eligable to vote was the 1997 GE and growing up in the 80s I had three reasons I voted labour.
1. It was labour, the party of the workers (working and middle class)
2.John Smith had really imspired me after the Kinnock years of fighting and shithousery that labour were a real viable inspiring future party
3. The torys had been cunts all my life and I needed them gone.

The next election 2001 things were going well, I had my grumbles over some labour policy so voted for them again

The 2005 election I voted green, PFIs and the lack of effort to adress the decimation of northern communities in the 8 years previous had started to piss me off.
some cabinet members were also annoying as fuck, the iraq war never came into my decission, unfortunatley I also realised that partys like the greens will never get a foothold on fptp and with the lack of effort from the media to give them an equal platform

2010 I went back to labour, the financial crash meant I was sure Brown was needed to stay on the tories were just gonna be evil if they got in in my belief.

The last three is similar, we have incompetnece and self interest at the heart of government and Labour is the only viable option, I will admit it doesn't always resonate with my socialism, but it is better than a tory government.


Also if you want civilised caring society, your vote shoold be about what benefits the country as a whole and not just yourself.