Can the UK handle..

Rascal said:
Helmet Cole said:
I don't realistically think you can compare the emigration of mostly well-off retired sun and golf fans from the UK to the Costa's with Eastern European immigration to the UK to be fair - the demographics are likely to be a little different.

Good point. A load of people who will pay no tax, take local housing and use local public services whilst putting very little back into the community or some kid from Bulgaria who wants to better himself, will probably in a job and pay tax and contribute to the community

Thats a great point HC
Do you actually think that retired people in Spain or France with an pension from the UK don't spend their money in the places they live and hence don't contribute to the local economy? Don't you think they might pay for their housing, pay for their services and pay tax on all their purchases, all with money originating from the UK. If that isn't contributing to the local community, I don't know what is.
 
Helmet Cole said:
Do we not as EU citizens have the same rights to benefits and free healthcare in Spain , Romania, and Bulgaria - surely this is the case or there would be no debate?

No we don't.

A host country must provide any member of the EU with the same social help as the citizen of that host country.

We have universal welfare so we have to give universal welfare to all EU citizens and that includes heating allowance and Child Allowance abroad.

So in short...if we didn't have a social security system we wouldn't have immigrants coming over and claiming benefits because the govt would only have to give immigrants what they give the citizens already here.
 
Surely you are not implying that immigration to this country is due to us being a 'soft touch' with regards to benefits and healthcare? I'm sure it's more to do with how wonderful our country is and the economic prospects for hard working immigrants looking to better themselves and become net contributors to our economy.
 
Do we really need more people here in our economic position?

Time to stop bending over and taking it up the star. Get Fuckin real.
 
Helmet Cole said:
Surely you are not implying that immigration to this country is due to us being a 'soft touch' with regards to benefits and healthcare? I'm sure it's more to do with how wonderful our country is and the economic prospects for hard working immigrants looking to better themselves and become net contributors to our economy.

I don't really need to imply anything really ;-)

Those are the cold hard facts of the matter.

Debating the reasons why our feckless and derelict politicians are putting people at risk (Both host citizens and immigrants) is beyond me.

It's stunningly lazy and absurd not to have a debate about this but the govt are hiding the facts and really don't seem to care about how the chronically unemployed living on estates with no future are going to react to another wave of immigration.

We could employ the tactic of cutting all benefits so that nobody would come to live here on benefits but that's probably a step too far.
 
The fact is we are in Europe and we are a Union. Part of this process will be a levelling of the economic playing field for the collective good. Overall this should lead to a more uniformly prosperous Europe without extremes of wealth or poverty. In the meantime it's only sensible to expect an influx of immigrants from the poorer parts of Europe to the wealthier parts. Despite the recession and all the gloom we are still one of the wealthiest countries, and it is indicative of our economic strength that we are a magnet for gypo's and the poor from less well of states. As things even out the UK should become poorer and the immigration will slow down to more realistic levels. We are victims of our own success - enjoy the fact that you live here and not Romania!
 
Helmet Cole said:
The fact is we are in Europe and we are a Union. Part of this process will be a levelling of the economic playing field for the collective good. Overall this should lead to a more uniformly prosperous Europe without extremes of wealth or poverty. In the meantime it's only sensible to expect an influx of immigrants from the poorer parts of Europe to the wealthier parts. Despite the recession and all the gloom we are still one of the wealthiest countries, and it is indicative of our economic strength that we are a magnet for gypo's and the poor from less well of states. As things even out the UK should become poorer and the immigration will slow down to more realistic levels. We are victims of our own success - enjoy the fact that you live here and not Romania!

We do indeed attract people from all over the world chasing wealth, and you need only look as far as our beloved MCFC to realise that it's people of all along the wealth spectrum who come for a share of our massive (I know) pie.

We attract the good, the bad, and the ugly - but we want to pick and choose who gets in - well, you really can't in a European Union where, eventually, our children and our grandchildren will be free to move around as they please without all the red tape and bollocks that our generation has had to contend with - and that includes our less salubrious relatives, not just the nice ones.

We are going thru a huge period of flux, and of course there will be winners, and losers - the powers that be have deemed these casualties as a price worth paying - but to me, to demonise our fellow humans as the problem is just plain wrong, and of course is against the law - as Daz says, blame the bureaucrats and politicians who haven't allocated sufficient resources, not the Romanians, or whoever is the next set of scapegoats.

I didn't mean to come across as patronising to Mack when I shared a previous experience of being hung out to dry by a corporate decision - I suffered a breakdown because someone who makes these decisions pulled a department and dumped their work on my team - they knew the company would survive, and any casualties would be less costly than actually paying for more support - this is how big business works, and it is how Governments work - we will survive waves of immigration overall, and the vast majority of the country will carry on as if nothing has changed, history tells us that. So I got out of that particular rat race - I could have stayed on and lost my desire to really help the customers and colleagues, but that's not me, fair play to those who can clock out at 5 and leave it all at work - I couldn't.

I'd say we could have a debate on immigration, but we can't have people saying whole races are somehow different to us or anyone else, that's how the fucking Nazi's used to think, and I refuse to accept any of these stereotypes are of any benefit whatsoever to a proper discussion, it's not a case of stifling debate, it's a case of stifling xenophobia.

By all means let's limit discussions to allocation of resources, and which particular parts of society will benefit or lose, but at no point should descriptors such as scruffy, smelly, horrible etc.. come into it, that's just bigoted, and of course the language used to describe several waves of immigrants into this country, and of course no longer applies, miraculously, thanks to the fact that they worked hard, integrated well, and enjoy the same facilities we all do like hot running water, washing machines and Lynx deodorant.
 
Ducado said:
nimrod said:
nijinsky's fetlocks said:
I accept your views.
I am on a public forum, so I have no choice.
So I suggest that you accept mine.
And it is that you are an ignorant, ill-informed bigot, who has not once constructed anything resembling a rational explanation for their prejudiced crap in all the time we have suffered you.
So there we have it.
A frank and honest exchange of views.

Its a great pity these political threads cant be conducted well with respect for each others views without falling into the usual 'I can come up with the bigger/better insult' kind of schoolboy crap.
Its very boring when you know that you will only be part of a thread for so long until it becomes extremely tedious.

Spot on

No, it isn't 'spot on' at all.
Why should I or anybody else be expected to respect viewpoints that are based on ignorance, or prejudice, or bigotry or, go on, I'll say it, downright racism?
Had the internet been around at the time of the second world war, would you have been imploring me to respect the views of those who posted that the Jews were 'a horrible race', as someone labelled the Roma earlier?
Would you 'respect' the views of such people yourself?
Of course you wouldn't - you would be wielding the banhammer and deleting posts within nanoseconds.
And I would be in full agreement with you.
I don't want to get into a debate about how the site is moderated, because it solves nothing, but please do not expect me to respect the views of bigots and racists, because it simply isn't going to happen.
Only a suggestion, but maybe if moderators were a tad more strict on curtailing deliberately inflammatory racist claptrap on here, then folk like me wouldn't have to waste time in challenging their ill-informed stupidity.
 

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