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Catalan leaders sentenced
- Thread starter KS55
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FlemishDuck
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Curious to know if anybody on here supports Catalan independence but not Scottish or indeed vice versa.
I think people would either support both or none on equal grounds. I support the abbilety for any people to decide their future trough self determination rather than to potentially be limited by the power of another entity over it. So on democratic grounds i'd support the Scots, Catalans, or even Brexiteers providing enough support. There are also limits in some respect, for example it's fair that the Scots wouldn't be able to hold a Scexit referendum every 6 months if the outcome would always be no whereas at present it seems reasonable to suggest for the Scots tat circumstances changed enough to warrent it.
The difference's in the specific case though matter aswell. There has been a lot more conflict between Catalonia and it's Spanish overlord in the last century whereas relations between Scots and other brits remains rather "brotherly" i guess. Catalonia in economic terms pays a fair bit for Spain, Scotland seems less negativly impacted for currently being in the union. Languaghe differences are also somewhat more pronounced afaik. I guess in a realistic sense the matter of Catalonia is more "urgent", there seems to be more respect overal for self determination in the UK. Saying that reminds me that the primary reason why the UK risked a whole carrier task force against Argentina was for protecting the self deterministic rights of a mere odd 1000 sheepherders. :D
Curious to know if anybody on here supports Catalan independence but not Scottish or indeed vice versa.
Surely it is about self determination. The Scots had a vote and they said no thanks. The Catalans had a vote and they said yes. It would be interesting to see if Jimmy Krankie is willing to fund and hold her own vote and also what she would then do if she won.... but that is a different thread, this is about disgraceful political actions of a 'First World country.
Surely it is about self determination. The Scots had a vote and they said no thanks. The Catalans had a vote and they said yes. It would be interesting to see if Jimmy Krankie is willing to fund and hold her own vote and also what she would then do if she won.... but that is a different thread, this is about disgraceful political actions of a 'First World country.
The Catalans had a vote yes but the anti independence part of the catalan population basically abstained. All the polls over the last years show that about 52% want to remain part of Spain.
That is not to say that successive spanish governments have been extremely stupid, and heavy handed, which might well turn the numbers around.
The Catalans had a vote yes but the anti independence part of the catalan population basically abstained. All the polls over the last years show that about 52% want to remain part of Spain.
That is not to say that successive spanish governments have been extremely stupid, and heavy handed, which might well turn the numbers around.
The Catalan vote was illegal hence the prosecutions and so it is null and void.
The Scottish vote in comparison was legal and conducted under legal oversight.
Obviously aside it is still a disgrace that Spain nor the EU seem to recognise any right to self-determination.
FlemishDuck
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- 23 Oct 2015
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- 1,785
The Catalan vote was illegal hence the prosecutions and so it is null and void.
yeah, and just for some context, from wiki:
(the 2017 catalan independence referendum) being also illegal according to the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia which requires a two third majority, 90 seats, in the Catalan parliament for any change to Catalonia's status
The Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia of 2006 (Catalan: Estatut d’Autonomia de Catalunya) provides Catalonia's basic institutional regulations under the Spanish Constitution of 1978. It defines the rights and obligations of the citizens of Catalonia, the political institutions of the Catalan community, their competences and relations with the rest of Spain, and the financing of the Government of Catalonia.[1]
This Law was approved by referendum on 18 June 2006 and supplanted the first Statute of Sau, which dated from 1979. The approval was given by the 36% of Catalan people with the right to vote. Abstention in the referendum was high: more than 50%.[2] On 28 June 2010, the Constitutional Court of Spain assessed the constitutionality of several articles of the Law,[3] rewriting 14 of them and dictating the interpretation for 27 more. That led to a massive demonstration in Barcelona of more than a million people[4][5] under the slogan in Catalan Som una nació. Nosaltres decidim (in English, "We are a nation. We decide").
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
Curious to know if anybody on here supports Catalan independence but not Scottish or indeed vice versa.
Both are going nowhere as decreed by the EU.
yeah, and just for some context, from wiki:
(the 2017 catalan independence referendum) being also illegal according to the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia which requires a two third majority, 90 seats, in the Catalan parliament for any change to Catalonia's status
The Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia of 2006 (Catalan: Estatut d’Autonomia de Catalunya) provides Catalonia's basic institutional regulations under the Spanish Constitution of 1978. It defines the rights and obligations of the citizens of Catalonia, the political institutions of the Catalan community, their competences and relations with the rest of Spain, and the financing of the Government of Catalonia.[1]
This Law was approved by referendum on 18 June 2006 and supplanted the first Statute of Sau, which dated from 1979. The approval was given by the 36% of Catalan people with the right to vote. Abstention in the referendum was high: more than 50%.[2] On 28 June 2010, the Constitutional Court of Spain assessed the constitutionality of several articles of the Law,[3] rewriting 14 of them and dictating the interpretation for 27 more. That led to a massive demonstration in Barcelona of more than a million people[4][5] under the slogan in Catalan Som una nació. Nosaltres decidim (in English, "We are a nation. We decide").
I think the last bit is the important part.
The Partido Popular, which is spanish nationalist, rolled back quite a lot of the autonomy that had been given to Catalunia.
yeah, and just for some context, from wiki:
(the 2017 catalan independence referendum) being also illegal according to the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia which requires a two third majority, 90 seats, in the Catalan parliament for any change to Catalonia's status
The Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia of 2006 (Catalan: Estatut d’Autonomia de Catalunya) provides Catalonia's basic institutional regulations under the Spanish Constitution of 1978. It defines the rights and obligations of the citizens of Catalonia, the political institutions of the Catalan community, their competences and relations with the rest of Spain, and the financing of the Government of Catalonia.[1]
This Law was approved by referendum on 18 June 2006 and supplanted the first Statute of Sau, which dated from 1979. The approval was given by the 36% of Catalan people with the right to vote. Abstention in the referendum was high: more than 50%.[2] On 28 June 2010, the Constitutional Court of Spain assessed the constitutionality of several articles of the Law,[3] rewriting 14 of them and dictating the interpretation for 27 more. That led to a massive demonstration in Barcelona of more than a million people[4][5] under the slogan in Catalan Som una nació. Nosaltres decidim (in English, "We are a nation. We decide").
Spain is the ultimate court in Catalonia unfortunately.
I don't know the detail but I'm assuming that Catalonia is just a devolved administration of Spain as opposed to Scotland which is a country and member of the UK.
My understanding is that Scotland can break from the 'union' by referendum or whatever but Spain would have to not just allow a referendum but also sanction independence in law.
Catalonia would then become a completely new country.
Both are going nowhere as decreed by the EU.
What bollocks. Nothing to do with the EU. Scotland had a vote and it voted to stay in the UK.
Catalunia?
It is Spain that is not allowing the Catalans a referendum due to a) the 1979 Spanish constitution's obsession with unity, and b) the fact that spanish nationalism is alive and kicking and their votes are important.