Catalonian referendum

[FCBarca]

I'm sorry, I don't think you do maths too well.
A majority of votes in a 43% turnout isn't an actual majority, let alone a significant one.
And even if it was, that's beside the point. The referendum was illegal by both Spanish and Catalan law!!

Here's another interesting detail:
In 71 municipalities the number of "yes" votes tallied were more than the number of registered voters for those municipalities according to the census.

So not only was it illegal, it was poorly conducted on top of that.

2.3 million voted constituting 43% (37% voted for Brexit and even less voted for both Trump AND Hillary), additionally 770k votes were confiscated by Spanish police which would make it a greater than 60% voter turnout - unheard of in just about any votation anywhere. My math is fine, it's based on the actual numbers not conjecture. It was a majority and very likely would have had an even greater turnout had many Catalans not been intimidated by fascist forces beating & shooting at people in the streets

 

[Jazzcat]

2.3 million voted constituting 43% (37% voted for Brexit and even less voted for both Trump AND Hillary), additionally 770k votes were confiscated by Spanish police which would make it a greater than 60% voter turnout - unheard of in just about any votation anywhere. My math is fine, it's based on the actual numbers not conjecture. It was a majority and very likely would have had an even greater turnout had many Catalans not been intimidated by fascist forces beating & shooting at people in the streets

Your math is fine? 770k votes equals 14.5% of all registered voters and 43%+14.5% is less than 60%.

Still this is not the point. The point is that the vote was illegal by both Spanish and Catalan law.
On top of that, an important number of irregularities were detected (people recorded voting more than once, votes made by foreigners not included in the census or even allowing children to vote, more votes than people in 71 municipalities), so the referendum was poorly conducted to begin with.

So no, it's not a majority regardless of how much you'd like it to be.
It was an illegal referendum and its poor implementation is what you'd expect from a banana republic, not an autonomous European region.

 

[robbieh]

Your math is fine? 770k votes equals 14.5% of all registered voters and 43%+14.5% is less than 60%.

Still this is not the point. The point is that the vote was illegal by both Spanish and Catalan law.
On top of that, an important number of irregularities were detected (people recorded voting more than once, votes made by foreigners not included in the census or even allowing children to vote, more votes than people in 71 municipalities), so the referendum was poorly conducted to begin with.

So no, it's not a majority regardless of how much you'd like it to be.
It was an illegal referendum and it's poor implementation is what you'd expect from a banana republic, not an autonomous European region.

The only way this is going to be put to bed is to have a properly conducted referendum. I suspect that the PP's unintentional role as chief recruiter for Catalán independence has brought about the very think they do not want. As I have said before Rajoy makes Teresa May look half competent.

 

[FCBarca]

The only way this is going to be put to bed is to have a properly conducted referendum. I suspect that the PP's unintentional role as chief recruiter for Catalán independence has brought about the very think they do not want. As I have said before Rajoy makes Teresa May look half competent.

The referendum wasn't the issue, you're spinning your wheels with that tired song. Rajoy is merely a symptom of Spanish intransigence & fascist leanings - he's lucky to still be in power as he was clinging to a weak mandate. If nothing else, this sort of drama has helped strengthen his position by appealing to nationalism - what those in power do when faced with adversity

 

[robbieh]

The referendum wasn't the issue, you're spinning your wheels with that tired song. Rajoy is merely a symptom of Spanish intransigence & fascist leanings - he's lucky to still be in power as he was clinging to a weak mandate. If nothing else, this sort of drama has helped strengthen his position by appealing to nationalism - what those in power do when faced with adversity

Agree with you. For me the referendum wasn't illegal but it was obstructed and that is why I say do it again. Also agree it will have made Rajoy popular amongst the Spanish flag wavers. I would like Catalunya to remain in spain but I understand why the majority of you want to leave.

 

[FCBarca]

Agree with you. For me the referendum wasn't illegal but it was obstructed and that is why I say do it again. Also agree it will have made Rajoy popular amongst the Spanish flag wavers. I would like Catalunya to remain in spain but I understand why the majority of you want to leave.

And I think at the end of the day, Catalans should obviously have the right to decide - certainly the reaction from Spain only polarizes people to vote yes more but historically there have long been plenty of reasons to become independent

 

[bluemoon32]

Feel a little uncomfortable with that tbh. Our club should not be used as a vehicle to express his political views, no matter how close to his heart. Do the club, all the players and all the fans agree with him ? Thin edge of the wedge imo.

Agreed

 

[Jazzcat]

The referendum wasn't the issue, you're spinning your wheels with that tired song. Rajoy is merely a symptom of Spanish intransigence & fascist leanings - he's lucky to still be in power as he was clinging to a weak mandate. If nothing else, this sort of drama has helped strengthen his position by appealing to nationalism - what those in power do when faced with adversity

And I think at the end of the day, Catalans should obviously have the right to decide - certainly the reaction from Spain only polarizes people to vote yes more but historically there have long been plenty of reasons to become independent

Really? Pray tell, what might those reasons be in this day and age?
It seems to me that Catalunia has had quite a bit preferential treatment in the post-Franco era and Spain really has made genuine concessions towards Catalunia (autonomy, measures to promote the Catalan language and culture, recognising its history etc.). The Generalitat in Catalunia holds jurisdiction in various matters of culture, education, health, justice, environment, communications, transportation, commerce, public safety and local governments and yet this is somehow not enough. You even call it intransigence & fascist . - Give them a finger...
What it really comes down to is unadulterated greed as Catalunia feels its financial contributions are disproportionate to the rest of Spain's regions.
I find it a bit ironic that Catalunia is now appealing to people's empathy when their main concern is their own financial interest.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Really? What reasons might those be?
It seems to me that Catalunia has had quite a bit preferential treatment in the post-Franco era and Spain really has made genuine concessions towards Catalunia (autonomy, measures to promote the Catalan language and culture, recognising its history etc.). The Generalitat in Catalunia holds jurisdiction in various matters of culture, education, health, justice, environment, communications, transportation, commerce, public safety and local governments and yet this is somehow not enough. You even call it intransigence & fascist . - Give them a finger...
What it really comes down to is unadulterated greed as Catalunia feels its financial contributions are disproportionate to the rest of Spain's regions.
I find it a bit ironic that Catalunia is now appealing to people's empathy when their main concern is their own financial interest.

and if Catalonia wasn't a financial hub ? Spain would be more than happy for them to be independent, it's always financially motivated

 

[Jazzcat]

and if Catalonia wasn't a financial hub ? Spain would be more than happy for them to be independent, it's always financially motivated

That's very possible, although I doubt they'd be more than happy to oblige, but it definitely wouldn't be as problematic.
And indeed, it's always financially motivated and they shouldn't pretend otherwise or hide behind romantic notions of history, culture or democracy to dress up their self-interest.