Catalonian referendum

I suppose where the claim for independence falls down is that they did get a 93% yes vote but on a turn out of only 43% of registered voters. So despite what they claim 93% of 43% of Catalans voting for independence is not the overwhelming majority they claim...........
 
bluethrunthru said:
I suppose where the claim for independence falls down is that they did get a 93% yes vote but on a turn out of only 43% of registered voters. So despite what they claim 93% of 43% of Catalans voting for independence is not the overwhelming majority they claim...........
Click to expand...

what would it be roughly out of interest ?
 
bluethrunthru said:
I suppose where the claim for independence falls down is that they did get a 93% yes vote but on a turn out of only 43% of registered voters. So despite what they claim 93% of 43% of Catalans voting for independence is not the overwhelming majority they claim...........
Click to expand...

Not only that, the referendum was declared illegal on 6 September 2017 and suspended by the Constitutional Court of Spain because it breached the Spanish Constitution of 1978.
Also the referendum was approved by the Catalan parliament in a session on 6 September 2017, along with a law which states that independence would be binding with a simple majority, without requiring a minimum turnout. This is even illegal according to the Catalan Statutes of Autonomy, which require a two third majority in the Catalan parliament for any change to Catalonia's status, which they don't have as the referendum was a pledge made by a minority government.
Finally, declaring independence will put them in a very tight spot as they'd effectively have no negotiating power left vis à vis the EU/Spain, so leveraging the possibility of seceding seems like the smartest thing to do and should wield the most bargaining power.
 
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bluethrunthru said:
I suppose where the claim for independence falls down is that they did get a 93% yes vote but on a turn out of only 43% of registered voters. So despite what they claim 93% of 43% of Catalans voting for independence is not the overwhelming majority they claim...........
Click to expand...

Those opposed refused to participate, so the referendum is certainly deeply flawed, and that's assuming that the numbers haven't been massaged somewhat, which is more than possible, even likely. The trouble is that the Spanish goverment's behaviour undoubtedly hardened some opinions and raised the turnout amongst the separatists. They really couldn't have handled it more badly. I keep seeing government spokesmen (always men curiously) saying it's illegal because there's no mechanism for referenda in the Spanish constitution, which is a nonsensical argument, as it means there is no means for any part to secede legally - a one way trip to civil war essentially.

From the separatists perspective, this is perfect. They have a plebiscite that they can use to further their claims - a real, legal one, they'd probably have lost - and can rely on the Spanish following the well established doctrine of ensuring that there's no situation, no matter how bad, that they can't make worse.
 
I don't know. You whip everyone into a frenzy. Madrid overreacts and gets heavy handed causing more frenzy so you march to the top of the hill to declare independence...then bottle it and decide it may be best to 'talk' things through after all but only after strengthening Madrid's position in the rest of Spain.

Any chance of people ever calling out these populist chaps before they paint themselves into a corner or do we just shrug and accept it?
 
bluethrunthru said:
I suppose where the claim for independence falls down is that they did get a 93% yes vote but on a turn out of only 43% of registered voters. So despite what they claim 93% of 43% of Catalans voting for independence is not the overwhelming majority they claim...........
Click to expand...

With 770k votes also confiscated by Spanish govt there was a greater than 60% of the eligible voters having turned out. 37% voted on Brexit with the slimmest of margins and even less for both Hillary & Trump. As a vote goes, it was a majority decision but sure Catalans would've come out in even greater numbers were it not for the fear of being attacked by fascist state police
 
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